Weaponskills That Need Most Refinement

[Spiritreaver]

I can just argue that every single none-empy/relic/mythic/merit point WS is useful then, for those who doesn't have R/E/M and don't have merit WS. Can I say Gekko is useful because I don't have R/E/M and don't have shoha?

But no, it doesn't work that way.

You are right, not every WS is useful, and that's kinda the frickin point. While i don't think ANYONE is asking for that specifically, every WS being a 'go to' WS, people that agree with the OP and are asking that some WSs get looked at for improvement so the list of WSs people actually use gets broadened a bit. And that isn't a bad thing.

[Suph]

Leaden Salute is weaker than Wildfire, but it is also easier to get, therefore it's still useful.

Cloudsplitter is weaker than Ruinator, and it is also harder to get, therefore it is useless.

As Leaden Salute is easier to get than Wildfire, it is possible that there will be people who don't take corsair seriously enough to get an Armageddon but still have Leaden Salute, and that's useful to them. It is however much less likely that someone will put all the effort into a Fasha if they're not serious enough about axe to even put some merits into Ruinator.

Therefore Leaden Salute is still useful, for those that don't have Wildfire or those working toward one. But any serious axe user will get Ruinator before Cloudsplitter, and once they do, why work toward Cloudsplitter at all? That's the difference.

[Karbuncle]

I think Mercy stroke is only considered a good WS In light that other dagger weaponskills suck horrible ass and its just the shiniest turd in a THF's arsenal. Its not a good Relic WS, Its just a good Dagger WS. its as weak and miserable as all the others, Its just surrounded by more sh*tty WS options than the other relic WS so it looks better in comparison.

Honestly, Both Rudra's and Mercy should be changed to a 5.0fTP with chance of Crit so they can be powerful stacked and unstacked. Both WS would become not much more powerful than they are now (In fact, Rudra's would be losing a little power uncrit'd at 300%"), and they would become a bit more comparable to other big DD WS without outshining them.

[ManaKing]

Leaden Salute is weaker than Wildfire, but it is also easier to get, therefore it's still useful.

Cloudsplitter is weaker than Ruinator, and it is also harder to get, therefore it is useless.

As Leaden Salute is easier to get than Wildfire, it is possible that there will be people who don't take corsair seriously enough to get an Armageddon but still have Leaden Salute, and that's useful to them. It is however much less likely that someone will put all the effort into a Fasha if they're not serious enough about axe to even put some merits into Ruinator.

Therefore Leaden Salute is still useful, for those that don't have Wildfire or those working toward one. But any serious axe user will get Ruinator before Cloudsplitter, and once they do, why work toward Cloudsplitter at all? That's the difference.

I'm working on my Farsha slowly, only because I like the way the weapon looks and it's one of the best Axes in the game. I don't want to make another Relic, because I'm cheap.

Cloudsplitter is magic vs Ruinator's physical damage, but Ruinator will win almost every single time, because that's the way SE designed the game. Whether they intended it or not is less clear.

The lack of WS balance truthfully comes from a lack of different situations in which you should use them. If there were a lot more magic-weak instead of magic-resistant mobs, you'd see some different WSs being used. You'd also see more skill chains and mages, instead of a ton of DPS.

You'd also see things like Quietus, CT, and wheeling thrust used if mobs had extremely high defense that even a WAR or DRK couldn't nullify by overpowering it with Berserk and/or LR. But SE does not make mobs like that, unless there is a way to get temps or atmas or something to not make players actually think about what they are doing besides spamming multi-hit STR based WSs.

It's not like players are wrong from favoring Resolution, Ukko's, VS, Tachi: Shoha, Stardiver, and Ruinator. They are doing what makes sense considering what they are taking on. This is honestly SEs fault for not making more diverse challenges.

It's not like it's easy to keep everything as current as we would all like it to be so the game could be modern and fresh, but I think everyone agrees that is what should be what SE focuses on. FFXI is an MMO and that makes it unacceptable for the people that play/pay, for it to be finished and outdated. This game has gone through many phases of being good or great by different people's opinion. The game needs to keep growing and be refined more. I think there are a lot of good things about the game, but there are a couple of huge, nagging problems. WS balance and lack of diverse challenges are just some of the more obvious ones.

I personally am still bored by people spamming WSs as fast as they can, because that is what they should do to accomplish their objectives. I know SC and MB is an antiquated system, but by excluding it from the present state of the game, i think you are literally ripping the magic out of the game. Not to mention the teamwork.

[Alhanelem]

I know SC and MB is an antiquated system, but by excluding it from the present state of the game, i think you are literally ripping the magic out of the game. Not to mention the teamwork.

It's just that they aren't effective enough for the effort they ask of players. The thing is, if you made them good enough to where people would want to use them, they might end up being broken.

[Kincard]

People skillchain all the time if it's available without needing to hold your TP for too long, because it effectively makes 1.5-2x the damage for the person closing.. MBs, on the other hand, need some sort of reworking, because as soon as anybody weaponskills after a skillchain is created, the MB window ends immediately.

[ManaKing]

It's just that they aren't effective enough for the effort they ask of players. The thing is, if you made them good enough to where people would want to use them, they might end up being broken.

What has to be adjusted is the kinds of mobs we fight. When mobs have -50% MDT and/or close to capped magic evasion, there is no reason to plan out single or double Dark/Light SCs even though you can do double damage if those SCs aren't resisted.

You can do things like make SC damage un-resistible, or do tons of extra damage, but honestly what would make the game a lot easier would be to stop giving every mob unreasonable amounts of magic defense. Mages only proc now, and that is pretty lackluster for a series that was built on magic and summoning. I agree that Mage Burning was just as bad as DPS Zerging, but excluding mages almost completely seems extremely foolish.

The middle ground approach would be to adjust SC damage somewhat so that it isn't completely nullified by mobs and also stop making such magic resistant mobs.

MB is a completely different issue even though it is obviously related. I would try to extend the window that MBs are available after a SC to a static amount instead of until next WS.

SC being bad is the reason people look for whatever is best at 100% TP. WSs like Spiral Hell that do increased damage on an exponential curve are perfect for closing SCs at 300% TP. But there is no reason for you to waste the time since you clearly could be spamming superior total damage WSs @ 100%TP because those WSs are new, shiny, and break the previous play style of the game.

I'm not saying that there shouldn't be good WSs at 100% TP, but I ask the question: Is there really a reason for TP to even go up to 300% anymore?

[tyrantsyn]

I'm not saying that there shouldn't be good WSs at 100% TP, but I ask the question: Is there really a reason for TP to even go up to 300% anymore?

level 3 aftermaths.

[ManaKing]

level 3 aftermaths.

Which could be made into 100% TP and just drop the other 2 AMs. Their 'diversity' is what most people call bad or inferior. Relic AMs are mostly a joke, mythic AMs exist to get to 300% so that you can spam higher efficiency WSs at 100% over and over, and Empy just needs to be given a static value.

No more AM issue.
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I don't agree with this mentality, obviously, because I'm looking for more relevant diversity for this game. The game is getting bland. My issue is that from an efficiency stand point and a math crunching stand point, this idea makes sense and basically is what the dev's turned the game into already. It's lazy and shows less emphasis on preserving what is good about the game vs changing it so that you can say that the game has been updated recently. 'Look guys! Updates! Aren't you happy? We fiddled with some stuff.' I don't think that all the work that has been done post aby is bad, I just think it really could have been better if they had better direction and possibly listened to their fan base more.

I personally love my merit WSs. Don't get me wrong. I would cry if they took my Requiescat, Ruinator, or Stardiver. I think they are really good WSs. But I do think that other WSs look terrible vs them and there are a lot of reasons for it and a lot of good that could be done to rectify it by preserving old parts of the game.

I'm not generally punitive about my suggestions because I think everyone is hurt by almost any nerf unless they are necessary just because it makes people upset and not want to play anymore. I don't particularly believe in taking something without giving something back in return because it makes people quit. I'm very against Ragnarok/Resolution because I think it is broken+good and marginalizes every other weapon in the game. But I don't think you should just screw everyone over that made a Ragnarok. IMHO they should make mobs that don't get clobbered by Resolution spam. It should still be good, just like a lot of the better WSs right now, but they should really spruce up some of the weaker WS, especially ones that are attached to prestige weapons, so that they can also have uses and have mobs that are much better dealt with by other WSs.

I really doubt people are going to complain about almost any Relic WS being changed because they already added +40% more damage on superior damage weapons and people still only use 2 of them.

Mythic WSs are a grab bag of treasure and trash, but at least no matter what, you can build a Mythic and get AM3 and then Merit WSs things faces off. Only a couple of Mythics are truly exceptional, but the majority are usable. The idea that any of them are not at least good is still viciously offensive for anyone since they cost so much, and honestly I would still only recommend thinking about building mythics if you are particularly die hard about your job. Besides DRG, there are almost always alternatives that are relatively close in potency and significantly cheaper. Since you can quest the WSs for them and they are job specific, you would really think that the dev team would focus more of their time on revitalizing them and giving every job something special or interesting for them to use, since only that job can use that particular WS. It makes it easy to give a job something nice without risking that X job uses it and it's super broken in their hands.

I won't comment on Empy's only because I'm sure we all have a similar opinion on Empy WSs since we are all so very aware of them because of the shear number of users. I'm sure everyone is very aware of how good some are and how lack luster others are.

[Hohenheim]

Trueflight pls