Weaponskills That Need Most Refinement

[Taint2]

Wall of Text

LOL you have no idea how RNG works.

AGI effects RA crit rate. DEX does not. Its not a big ??? its a know fact and has been tested and proven. It also does not scale like melee crits.

[saevel]

LOL you have no idea how RNG works.

AGI effects RA crit rate. DEX does not. Its not a big ??? its a know fact and has been tested and proven. It also does not scale like melee crits.

Then link proof on that fact. No info on azure underwear has proven such, nor any info on the WS's in question as proven such.

All info I've searched and looked into hasn't mentioned AGI effecting ranged crit at all.

I will submit that if AGI is the base for ranged crit then JR's mod sucks, otherwise I must go with the already established and documented information.

Also Taint, your better then this. Rather then scoffing and trying to use ad hominem you could instead post actual info that refutes the point given.

BG's wiki, the most complete list of current game mechanic information, doesn't list anything regarding AGI effecting ranged attack crit rate.

You might as well claim that CHR effects hate while your at it.

Now if you have information that is not there then you should update it to ensure that maximum information is provided to the community.

[Afania]

You don't know shit about RNG do you?

JR blows, it should be an AGI based WS. SE really screwed the pooch with the DEX mod.

I may be wrong since I don't have RNG, but I'm under the impression that LS is good when you're buffed, and JR is good when you're not. So if you're being tossed into mage pt, pop champion, fighting higher def NMs, wouldn't JR pull ahead?(If both weapons at lv 99)

[Mayoyama]

WTF this makes no sense. JR is as powerful as / nearly as (depending on gear and situation) LS for physical ranged WS. WF is highly reliant on some sort of +Fire Damage buff typically seen inside abyssea or voidwatch, it's also magic damage so favors COR by far. Ranged attacks are not "AGI Based", AGI only effects ranged accuracy and RNG has an A+ skill along with five accuracy bonus traits for a total of +60. If anything Ranged Attacks are "STR based" as they get double the fSTR bonus that melees get. The only reason you see more Marks Rangers is that they have more options (Anni / Arma) where as Gandiva is JR spam RNG only, both deal the same amount of damage but Marks has the choice of switching to magic or reduced-hate damage.

Yeah I realised my error with the agi/str thing after I posted but was too tired to log back in and edit the post lol. I guess the issue here is more to do with archery vs marks rather than the ws itself

EDIT: Apologies for causing a derailment of the thread (unintentionally). Its just that I have always liked bows on rng and keep getting told JR and my 90 gandiva (which I made back when lv cap was 90 and bows were viewed as still good) were a waste of my time (and I have on many instances seen JR been beaten by LS)

[Mayoyama]

Back on track with the thread topic, it is undeniable that most if not all relic ws need some form of overhaul... and this also includes several of their aftermaths (which dont last long enough.. even if they were useful). Even with the damage boosts from the higher level versions of the relics they still suck badly

Whether or not Mr Matsui and the dev team will eventually look into these is still to be seen (and this most likely will not be until well after march).

[saevel]

Everyone will list their favorite job's WS here for "broken". There are many but I'd prefer to keep it down to specific Job's needing better choices. Entropy sucks but DRK can use a Rag and Resolution so it should be lower on the priority list. In that same vein Rudra's Storm sucks but THF has access to MS, though dancer is screwed. I would like to see RS be allowed to crit, or DNC put on Mandau to compensate for it. Also Exten should be modified to allow fTP to carry across all hits.

Cloudsplitter sucks but BST has access to the BST 1H WS in the game. Ruinator is four (five as DW) hit attack that can copy fTP for a total of 6.0 fTP before DA/TA procs. It's also 100% STR WSC and carries a ~35% attack bonus. So even if they do buff CS it won't hold a candle to Ruin's damage output.

All considered, DNC, PUP, NIN are the jobs without really nice WS options. For weapons most of the relic WS's suck but the recent merit ones mostly make up for that.

[Damane]

Everyone will list their favorite job's WS here for "broken". There are many but I'd prefer to keep it down to specific Job's needing better choices. Entropy sucks but DRK can use a Rag and Resolution so it should be lower on the priority list. In that same vein Rudra's Storm sucks but THF has access to MS, though dancer is screwed. I would like to see RS be allowed to crit, or DNC put on Mandau to compensate for it. Also Exten should be modified to allow fTP to carry across all hits.

Cloudsplitter sucks but BST has access to the BST 1H WS in the game. Ruinator is four (five as DW) hit attack that can copy fTP for a total of 6.0 fTP before DA/TA procs. It's also 100% STR WSC and carries a ~35% attack bonus. So even if they do buff CS it won't hold a candle to Ruin's damage output.

All considered, DNC, PUP, NIN are the jobs without really nice WS options. For weapons most of the relic WS's suck but the recent merit ones mostly make up for that.

this doesnt make sense, you are excluding in that way some relic/mythic/empy that need an overhaul. What you gonna tell a DRK that made a relic or empy scythe? (not that the relic scythe is bad its awesome) go do a Ragnarok? Same goes with Armageddon vs death penalt. Sucks for your lvl 99 mythic to get outdamaged by a lvl 85 empy! The WSs need balance in between. Thats all people are asking.

IMHO WSs that need an overhaul:

in the relic department:
- Final Heaven (Spharai): lack of damage compared to Shijin Spiral/Victory Smite
- Knights of Rounds (Excalibur): lack of damage compared to Chant de Cygne, tough Excalibur itself has alot of potential in their add effect proc
- Scourge (Ragnarok): lack of damage compared to Resolution/Torcleaver
- Onslaught (Guttler): lack of damage compared to Ruinator
- Metatron Torment (Bravura): lack of damage compared to Ukyo's Fury
- Geirskogul (Gugnir): lack of damage compared to Stardiver/Drakes bane
- Blade: Megsu (Kikoku): lack of damage compared to Blade: Hi
- Tachi: Kaiten (Amano): lack of damage compared to Tachi: Shoha/Tachi: Fudo
- Namas Arrow (Yoichi): lack of damage OR (not both) lack of low enmity generation

not listed because usefull and good:
- Catastroph (Apocalypse): This WS is decent and heals the user
- Coronach (Annihilator): This WS deals almost no enmity which makes it so fantastiq in a lot of Fights
- Mercy Stroke (Mandau): good WS


Mythic WSs (Those WSs should get a normal adjustment, they have +30% dmg on mythic weapons, but that doesnt cut it):
- Kings Justice (WAR): lack of dmg, this WS is WAY behind
- Ascetics Fury (MNK): lack of dmg and way to inconsistence
- Mandalic Stab (THF): lack of dmg
- Atonement (PLD): lack of dmg (750 dmg really lol) + every mob by now is immune to it or resists it to hell
- Insurgency (DRK): lack of dmg
- Drakesbane (DRG): lack of dmg compared to stardiver, the -attack penalty kills it
- Laeden Salute (COR): lack of dmg compared to wildfire, high resist rate due to monters/NMs usually resisting dark based elemental magic.
- Pyrrhic Kleos (DNC): its okeish but behind, better modifiers would fix it easy.

not listed because good:
- STringing pummel (PUP)

not listed because no experience:
- The rest

[Caketime]

I've always wondered what the point of Cloudsplitter was. I imagine that when it was first being tested the damage was considered too high so they nerfed it to the ground pre-release and slapped it on the Farsha as a last minute troll move. "They'll spend weeks building this Axe only to find out the WS sucks! Mwahahaha!". Ruinator is the boss.

[Spiritreaver]

You make a solid post like the following

WTF this makes no sense. JR is as powerful as / nearly as (depending on gear and situation) LS for physical ranged WS. WF is highly reliant on some sort of +Fire Damage buff typically seen inside abyssea or voidwatch, it's also magic damage so favors COR by far. Ranged attacks are not "AGI Based", AGI only effects ranged accuracy and RNG has an A+ skill along with five accuracy bonus traits for a total of +60. If anything Ranged Attacks are "STR based" as they get double the fSTR bonus that melees get. The only reason you see more Marks Rangers is that they have more options (Anni / Arma) where as Gandiva is JR spam RNG only, both deal the same amount of damage but Marks has the choice of switching to magic or reduced-hate damage.

Then you throw out a post like this right after...

Everyone will list their favorite job's WS here for "broken". There are many but I'd prefer to keep it down to specific Job's needing better choices. Entropy sucks but DRK can use a Rag and Resolution so it should be lower on the priority list. In that same vein Rudra's Storm sucks but THF has access to MS, though dancer is screwed. I would like to see RS be allowed to crit, or DNC put on Mandau to compensate for it. Also Exten should be modified to allow fTP to carry across all hits.

Cloudsplitter sucks but BST has access to the BST 1H WS in the game. Ruinator is four (five as DW) hit attack that can copy fTP for a total of 6.0 fTP before DA/TA procs. It's also 100% STR WSC and carries a ~35% attack bonus. So even if they do buff CS it won't hold a candle to Ruin's damage output.

All considered, DNC, PUP, NIN are the jobs without really nice WS options. For weapons most of the relic WS's suck but the recent merit ones mostly make up for that.

And i mostly mean the last line that i bolded. I'll give you the bit about DNC, but you really need to rethink PUP and NIN.

For NIN at endgame lvl, either Hi or Shun is the way to go. Properly geared either is a hell of a WS. AGI(Hi) and DEX(Shun) gear is readily available to NIN, so i'm really not seeing where the lack of a strong WS for NIN is coming from.

And i left PUP for last as i almost killed myself laughing, making my coffee go down the wrong way. Love or hate PUP as a job, whatever, i'm years past giving a damn over how non-PUP view the job; but you do know that PUP has access to Victory Smite AND Stringing Pummel right? I'd really like to hear your reasoning behind calling either of those WSs anything other than awesome.

[Yrusama]

I agree completely. I say this as a PUP: the problems aren't with the weapon skills. The problems are with the necessity for constant JA use and lack of gear. Then again, people all too quickly feel that the master's stats are all that matter.