Weaponskills That Need Most Refinement

[Trisscar]

Pretty much all of the quested weapon skills need some tender loving care.

[Afania]

dont know about you guys bout Leaden Salute is kinda strong with magic buff, sure it not like wildfire but it useful.

That's contradiction. If it's not as strong as X, then it's not useful because you can just use X.

[Spiritreaver]

That's contradiction. If it's not as strong as X, then it's not useful because you can just use X.

You are just being argumentative. Because contrary to how its portrayed on forums, everyone with COR does NOT have Empy Gun lvl 85+, or even the WoE version.

[Afania]

You are just being argumentative. Because contrary to how its portrayed on forums, everyone with COR does NOT have Empy Gun lvl 85+, or even the WoE version.

I can just argue that every single none-empy/relic/mythic/merit point WS is useful then, for those who doesn't have R/E/M and don't have merit WS. Can I say Gekko is useful because I don't have R/E/M and don't have shoha?

But no, it doesn't work that way.

[Spiritreaver]

I can just argue that every single none-empy/relic/mythic/merit point WS is useful then, for those who doesn't have R/E/M and don't have merit WS. Can I say Gekko is useful because I don't have R/E/M and don't have shoha?

But no, it doesn't work that way.

You are right, not every WS is useful, and that's kinda the frickin point. While i don't think ANYONE is asking for that specifically, every WS being a 'go to' WS, people that agree with the OP and are asking that some WSs get looked at for improvement so the list of WSs people actually use gets broadened a bit. And that isn't a bad thing.

[Mayoyama]

Blade: Metsu: Should be a multi-hit ws to match the animation and should be allowed to crit. The aftermath of lolsubtleblow should equally be changed, potentially to something such as a bonus to ninja tool expertise.

Jishnu's Radiance: The ws has scaled poorly from what it was at 85 and for a multi-hit+crit ws, it really falls behind other ranged ws. It is also frowned upon due to its dex mod (when ranged attacks are agi based) but if the fTP was increased slightly then this would help counteract this.

Atonement: This used to be PLD's crowning glory.. now its just lolworthy (especially due to being tied to emnity). If the max dmg able to be dealt was doubled from 750 to 1500, it wouldnt be broken and would allow plds to have a slightly better chance of keeping up with the hate of the DDs (and it is more than possible to hit 1500 ws using cdc/requiescat outside abyssea)

[saevel]

Jishnu's Radiance: The ws has scaled poorly from what it was at 85 and for a multi-hit+crit ws, it really falls behind other ranged ws. It is also frowned upon due to its dex mod (when ranged attacks are agi based) but if the fTP was increased slightly then this would help counteract this.

WTF this makes no sense. JR is as powerful as / nearly as (depending on gear and situation) LS for physical ranged WS. WF is highly reliant on some sort of +Fire Damage buff typically seen inside abyssea or voidwatch, it's also magic damage so favors COR by far. Ranged attacks are not "AGI Based", AGI only effects ranged accuracy and RNG has an A+ skill along with five accuracy bonus traits for a total of +60. If anything Ranged Attacks are "STR based" as they get double the fSTR bonus that melees get. The only reason you see more Marks Rangers is that they have more options (Anni / Arma) where as Gandiva is JR spam RNG only, both deal the same amount of damage but Marks has the choice of switching to magic or reduced-hate damage.

[Helel]

WTF this makes no sense. JR is as powerful as / nearly as (depending on gear and situation) LS for physical ranged WS. WF is highly reliant on some sort of +Fire Damage buff typically seen inside abyssea or voidwatch, it's also magic damage so favors COR by far. Ranged attacks are not "AGI Based", AGI only effects ranged accuracy and RNG has an A+ skill along with five accuracy bonus traits for a total of +60. If anything Ranged Attacks are "STR based" as they get double the fSTR bonus that melees get. The only reason you see more Marks Rangers is that they have more options (Anni / Arma) where as Gandiva is JR spam RNG only, both deal the same amount of damage but Marks has the choice of switching to magic or reduced-hate damage.

Actually, your post makes no sense. JR and LS = the same damage? Are you kidding me? The reason you see more marks RNG is because guns do better damage. Gandiva is for RNGs who want to play it cheap. Not to mention the bow is utterly useless on things like odin.

[Taint2]

WTF this makes no sense. JR is as powerful as / nearly as (depending on gear and situation) LS for physical ranged WS. WF is highly reliant on some sort of +Fire Damage buff typically seen inside abyssea or voidwatch, it's also magic damage so favors COR by far. Ranged attacks are not "AGI Based", AGI only effects ranged accuracy and RNG has an A+ skill along with five accuracy bonus traits for a total of +60. If anything Ranged Attacks are "STR based" as they get double the fSTR bonus that melees get. The only reason you see more Marks Rangers is that they have more options (Anni / Arma) where as Gandiva is JR spam RNG only, both deal the same amount of damage but Marks has the choice of switching to magic or reduced-hate damage.

You don't know shit about RNG do you?

JR blows, it should be an AGI based WS. SE really screwed the pooch with the DEX mod.

[saevel]

You don't know shit about RNG do you?

JR blows, it should be an AGI based WS. SE really screwed the pooch with the DEX mod.

The math between them has them equal, though there is a big ??? about whether RA crits are dDEX or not. So far as we know AGI only adds ranged accuracy. Assuming their dDEX based similar to melee critical hit rate has JR equal to LS most of the times and sometimes ahead / behind depending on if the target has critical hit evasion BS (Mul).

JR is 1.75 (1.95) per hit with three hits for a total of 5.85 fTP @ 60% DEX WSC and can crit. Though ranged crits are inferior to melee crits as their only a 25% damage bonus they still count and people tend to forget they exist far too often.

LS is 2.0 fTP (2.2) per hit with two hits for a total of 4.2 fTP (moonshade doesn't seem to be worth it as little scaling as it does) @100% AGI.

JR has a fTP and crit advantage, LS has a WSC and better base weapon DMG. Though the other thing to take into account is fSTR on ranged attacks is 2:1 rather then 4:1 making +STR incredibly important until you hit fSTR cap.

Crit rate without gear would be
Base: 5
Merits: 5
Fencer: 5
WS base: 15

Gear should be higher with Athos Body + Augmented Byakkos giving a +9% crit damage. You'll want Athos's gloves for an additional +3% crit rate along with the STR and DEX. dDEX should be capped for another 15% crit rate. Maybe another piece or two but generally your now at 45~50% crit rate and should see a crit on every WS, which is why it's important to actually take that into account rather then completely disregarding it. My last point on JR is that too many players overlook STR in favor for DEX which is generally a mistake. 1 DEX is +0.51 base DMG, 1 STR is +0.5 base DMG (until fSTR cap) so their very similar until you hit fSTR cap and WS sets should be somewhat balanced between the two. Assuming target NM's have 110~120 VIT/AGI (generic target) the player should be looking at 160~170 DEX and STR in their WS setup with anymore going towards DEX.

So I'll say again, why in the hell would you want JR to be AGI based when AGI does nothing but ranged accuracy on a job that has five accuracy bonus's traits with an A rated skill?


Now the real reason so many go with marks is that there is no incentive to go with archery. With LS and JR being so dead event and marks offering additional benefits like hate free damage and magic damage (if you play COR) there is no reason a marks RNG would ever make a Gandiva and good reasons for an Archery RNG to make a Anni / Arma. Other then Archery taking less of a damage hit from standing outside of NM AoE range (a benefit of RNG) and having cheaper ammo costs, though lets be honest Marks RNG's don't shoot in Adam bullets they save them for WS.