SoA content for ALL 20 jobs...

[saevel]

Yes, that is true...it's also true that in many well balanced MMOs the gap between various builds isn't 30% or more, which is the case with FFXI's situation, which you seem to be ignoring. People will clear pretty much every bit of content without specifically building a party of Ret Pallies/Hunters/Rogue/Popular Build etc, because the gap is almost never large enough for most people to bother looking for those builds specifically, and when it is, it is rightfully nerfed. I want to see you do the same thing with FFXI's Legion making an alliance of NINs as your tanks/holders and THFs, MNKs, and BLUs as your DPSs. I am not asking for perfect, 100% everyone does the same numerical damage balance. Nobody is stupid enough to ask for that.

And you're acting like making the developers play a game of cat-and-mouse with finding game mechanic exploits is somehow a bad thing. The first thing is that the alternative is for them to sit on their thumbs about it, which is hardly a better alternative, and the second is that the players often take a while to find out what superior builds actually are.

Also, it's often the case that in FFXI's particular situation, the search for superior builds has almost always been within the same circle of two-hander jobs, because a lot of the problems stem from how two-hander damage in general is calculated, and then you have the issue of lack of powerful JAs like Berserk or Last Resort combined with Hasso on other than 2 or 3 jobs further widening the gap.

If you only chose one job in FFXI then what your saying is true. Fortunately (or not depending) we can walk to our pet moogle and *BAM* instantly respec / change jobs. This ends up exasperating the problem by enabling high end players to always be capable of doing the "near perfect" setup. Why would anyone bring a non-perfect job when they can change to the perfect job or be replaced by someone else. The only time this is no longer an issue is when the jobs in question are so similar that their functionally identical in 90% of cases. DRK vs WAR for example.

There are only so many knobs and dials you can introduce to create variety, ultimately we all smack things really hard to get loot. There are only so many ways you can smack a pinata to get the candy.

[Kincard]

In an old style MMO like this the holy trinity is basically unavoidable. Making jobs unique does not have to be restricted to being within those roles though, and making a holy trinity role a job's defining role is probably a bad idea when there's so many of them.

[Ramaza]

In an old style MMO like this the holy trinity is basically unavoidable. Making jobs unique does not have to be restricted to being within those roles though, and making a holy trinity role a job's defining role is probably a bad idea when there's so many of them.

This man gets it. Uniqueness can still be had even in the holy trinity.

[Caketime]

The ability to change jobs is great. The inabiity to quickly transfer gear and the limited space with which to store said gear makes a simple job change a little more complicated than just harassing my moogle and then going off to have fun. I only play a few jobs but gearing them has taken up all of my storage slots, I have 3 mules just to hold all of my gear, situational pieces that aren't often used as well as full sets I use often.

So while I can just change to the "perfect" job, it can only be one that I have well geared and due to our inventory restrictions I can only reliably gear a few jobs before hitting a brick wall in terms of space requirements. Anyone else playing faces the same situation, and they have to hope that at least one of their jobs is desirable for X or Y event.

Addendum: Job changes should not be the only workaround for poor game balance.

[Alhanelem]

Addendum: Job changes should not be the only workaround for poor game balance.

Of course not, content needs to be designed with the effects of each job in consideration. But it's impossible for content to completely compensate for <insert job here>'s shortcomings, without resorting to cheap/cheesy gimmicks (e.g. this monster takes 200% damage from automatons, or Steps and Flourishes are 2x as effective against this monster, and is immune to great axe weaponskills)

[Kincard]

If you only chose one job in FFXI then what your saying is true. Fortunately (or not depending) we can walk to our pet moogle and *BAM* instantly respec / change jobs. This ends up exasperating the problem by enabling high end players to always be capable of doing the "near perfect" setup. Why would anyone bring a non-perfect job when they can change to the perfect job or be replaced by someone else. The only time this is no longer an issue is when the jobs in question are so similar that their functionally identical in 90% of cases. DRK vs WAR for example.

Except you can apply that logic to other games because other games don't charge extra for more characters.

"Why take x person when we can take y person?"
"Why take x character when you can hop onto your y toon instead?"

In other games it's pretty normal for people to play multiple characters in compensation for the fact that a job change system doesn't exist. The same logic would apply, but it doesn't because there generally isn't that gigantic gap between classes like this game has.

And, WAR vs DRK, as you said, are pretty much functionally identical when it comes down to just filling in a holy trinity role (in this case damage). They still have unique function such as fell cleave, multiple high skill weapons VS absorb spells and twilight scythe etc. This should be the philosophy when designing other Damage jobs. Make them capable of dealing damage, and then add unique things to their role to make sure not every job is the same. It's precisely because that there's only so many ways to crack the pinata that it's important to try to make it so that everyone can function as the bat in about the same manner when that's the main attraction. I can use either a golf club or a bat of the same length to crack the pinata about the same, but when i go play baseball or golf obviously I"ll choose one over the other.

[detlef]

Oh I agree. I prefer the old model of slightly easier, more forgiving battlefields with a more forgiving time limit. I also prefer being rewarded for killing something rather than being rewarded for how quickly it was killed.

But again, Legion is only one event in the game and for the vast majority of players, you aren't missing anything by not participating.

[Afania]

Oh I agree. I prefer the old model of slightly easier, more forgiving battlefields with a more forgiving time limit. I also prefer being rewarded for killing something rather than being rewarded for how quickly it was killed.

But again, Legion is only one event in the game and for the vast majority of players, you aren't missing anything by not participating.

You don't get a chance to obtain awesome gears in legion unless you find a LS to merc for you. So you can't really say "you aren't missing anything by not participating".