On Red Mage melee...

[Hyrist]

Actually, I was talking in regards to Walk of Echoes that anyone can enter lot and steal your items at just about any time...

There's not enough activity in WoE, at least on my server, to really worry about that issue anymore. As far as the chances of Coins drop, that's a valid concern. Though, one has to wonder what takes more time when it comes to gathering the pop items, farming for time, killing the NM, etc.

I guess it all boils down to luck I suppose. I do tend to find Walk of Echos to be enjoyably chaotic fun though.

[Karbuncle]

There's not enough activity in WoE, at least on my server, to really worry about that issue anymore. As far as the chances of Coins drop, that's a valid concern. Though, one has to wonder what takes more time when it comes to gathering the pop items, farming for time, killing the NM, etc.

I guess it all boils down to luck I suppose. I do tend to find Walk of Echos to be enjoyably chaotic fun though.

I just recall reading so many horror stories on WoE. For instance there are people who /sea-camp the zone and go when people show up just to leech coins/etc. (Used to be anyway).

just thought you could likely burn through a stage 85 Empyrean quicker than a 85 Gimpyrean. But as you said, It comes down to luck...

[Doombringer]

woe sucks.. drops get poached, and the droprate are less reliable than in aby. (sure, it can be time consuming to get 50 helms/skins, but at least when you kill sobek you get sobek skins.. in woe you could go all day and not get any of the RIGHT coins) woe is just to reliant on luck.

then if you have proper atmas and all/most abyssites of merit/furtherance... most emp nms are no harder than clearing a woe zone. honestly, sobek and briarius are duoable. and i'm sure somebody somewhere has soloed them. and gukumatz's KI can be goldboxed now..

AND they added more +2 items to sobek, and even a couple to briarius. so you could prolly get STRANGERS to help you out.

i would say, unless you can solo woe, well... it's not worth it. because as soon as you step up to a trio or even a duo, you now have the manpower to build a real almace. it's not hard, it's just time consuming. the real problem with the fake emps is that they can end up just as time consuming if not worse due to the random nature of WoE.

honestly i don't think we do woe "right". seems to me like it was supposed to be the new campaign. something strangers do together, with one happening near constantly, and the chips fall where they may. but since abyssea is so much more popular, woe is a dead event, and you're not getting any coins without a significant effort. a significant efort put towards a weaker weapon.


that being said, don't let me be the party shitter. if you can get a badelaire easily, do it. CdC is a huge buff, no matter where you get it from.

[katz]

What idea to reduce 10-15% dmg? RDM shouldn't be meleeing in the tank pt when they have multiple DDs to cure, come on really lol? Raise the subtle blow cap JUST for rdm? That's ridiculous. It's not crying when i have seen it hundreds of times, RDMs meleeing, not hasting, not curing, not refreshing anyone but themselves.

The same can be said for tanks that dont pull hate off the mages even though its expected of them. When the majority of the DD classes see RDMs roles is to support DDs rather than act like a DD themselves its an up hill struggle to change attitudes. Why dont you see the same complaints about Dancers not healing DDs, because people dont see it as the primary function of the job. How do we change peoples opinion that RDM is also not the primary function of a healers role and they are fine DDing and curing themselves without taking the healer role away from the WHM and making the RDM back to being a primary DD role with secondary healing abilities. There is nothing wrong with the RDM self healing and supporting with debuffs while attacking just needs to lower the tp feeding and its fine. Im not saying I wouldnt throw out the odd cures to the others but why should it be the primary role.

[Hyrist]

Ah, a newbie to the conversation, welcome.

I'm working on an FAQ at this point so we can keep people on the same page of conversation. It might take a while because I'm going to have to summerise the arguments and the problems we'd like to see addressed.

Would anyone be opposed to me attempting to write up a credo as far as the general idea of what we agree on, just to have something to unite behind while we're sharing ideas?

[Yarly]

I think redmages should be able to use all weapons.
LIKE UKONVASARA! That'll be the best. Someone make a thread and make sure to put [TO THE DEVS] in the title or else they won't look at it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I think redmages should be able to use all weapons.
LIKE UKONVASARA! That'll be the best. Someone make a thread and make sure to put [TO THE DEVS] in the title or else they won't look at it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

Fail troll attempt, bravo!

1/10 - NOTE: Try harder!

[Winrie]

I doubt that was a troll, that was prolly their normal intelligence level.

[Duelle]

I doubt that was a troll, that was prolly their normal intelligence level.

The overuse of the exclamation points suggests troll, so I'll side with daniel on this one.

By the way, Hyrist, that's fine. Post it here, I'll paste it into the OP and we can continue about our day.

[katz]

Not sure if this counts as off topic I apologise if it is but to me it makes sense to remove the spells bought by merits and use the 2nd category to boost RDMs other abilities like the RDM are asking for. More merits for melee, damage,evasion, etc to define the RDM role of non healer better and give them the opportunity to boost their other aspects of the job. This would then free up the magic scrolls for other jobs if people wanted them allocating say to BLM or WHM. I know its a bit late in the Role for this change but maybe something could be written to give RDM merits back for reallocation and automatically add the merited spells to the magic list.

Apologise for the dual post of the above but as the RDM community I would like you discuss my proposal. It is posted under BIO 3 for drk thread in the discussions forum.