On Red Mage melee...

[Duelle]

The problem is, Duelle, you're talking about a complete job rework, and honestly, Red Mage does not need a "Delete, Reinsert" type of working with the job.

That's more a matter of opinion. Really depends on how much of a problem you have with the way RDM is currently designed. As anyone could probably guess, I've taken issue with the class' design on a fundamental level.

But even if that gap was closed, you'd have the problem of it not being enough. For someone of the mentality we're being displayed. Simply having Refresh and Haste in our spell list automatically makes us duty-bound to forsake all other aspects of our class, simply to cycle those two spells endlessly. Oh, and throw out an inefficent cure sevral times in a row when needed.

As I've said in the past, you'd need to devalue Refresh and Haste and then toss in the melee changes. Those two spells need to be removed from the equation when a RDM is front-lining. Those and cures overshadow a lot of the other parts of our class.

Kind of funny, cause by the time 99 comes around, every single mage or melee job that subs Red Mage will be able to spread haste around. However it will still be Red Mage's 'duty' to do so. SE would do well to just buck up and give RDM hastega and make it party only.

I've never been one to just put up with something that doesn't belong and go with it. Support got shoved down our throat because we were/are not up to par in the other departments. This is further aggravated by the fact you have individuals who feel we're more useful in the backlines healing and buffbotting and are justified because of the above sentence.

[Supersun]

you'd need to devalue Refresh and Haste and then toss in the melee changes.
I've never been one to just put up with something that doesn't belong and go with it

Refresh and Haste on Rdm will naturally devalue themselves just from the fact of the sheer number of jobs that will likely have it accessible at 99 from /rdm.

What needs to be done is adding viable ways to make our hasting faster and not as frequent. They've already helped tremendously with the not as frequent part with AF3+2, but the issue still stands that every time the red clock disappears we have to eat 4-5 secs per cast per person, and if spending 1-2 secs to activate a JA is too much time for a DD with high haste values then 4-5 secs per person is far too much.

Even if haste was instant cast you are still stuck in a 2 sec animation delay per haste. Really, as much as Rdm is a single target mage unless they get creative nothing is going to get close to the ability to AoE our single target support spells. Now it doesn't necessarily have to be hastega, but if melee is to have any chance of taking off we can't waste 10+ secs just to distribute 1 spell when other jobs pass all their spells in half the time.

That or remove that stupid 1-2 sec delay after every non melee action. Do that and let fast cast take care of the rest.

(On that note, reading some of the responses to Aurara's "trolling" in the BG thread has made my day)

[Duelle]

Refresh and Haste on Rdm will naturally devalue themselves just from the fact of the sheer number of jobs that will likely have it accessible at 99 from /rdm.

This is assuming the playerbase adjusts accordingly once the cap is raised to 99. Which, in all honesty, has yet to be determined.

Either way, it also doesn't help the people who are still leveling (yeah, I know, FoV, raised exp gains and abyssea quick levelling~), since RDM is then not growing into their front line option because between 41 and 96 they'll still be refresh, haste and cure bots. Front line play won't stand a chance unless people start seeing more RDMs meleeing their way to level cap rather than taking support roles during the leveling process.

[Supersun]

Moot point since from 30+ 6 man exp parties don't really exist anymore.

It's rather hard to force someone to be a refresh, haste, and cure bot in an 18 man alliance against easy preys where you will spend more time looking for the correct mob to complete your page then actually fighting.

If a Rdm isn't meleeing in one of those parties it's more by choice then being forced not to.

[Duelle]

Moot point since from 30+ 6 man exp parties don't really exist anymore.

It's rather hard to force someone to be a refresh, haste, and cure bot in an 18 man alliance against easy preys where you will spend more time looking for the correct mob to complete your page then actually fighting.

If a Rdm isn't meleeing in one of those parties it's more by choice then being forced not to.

While still doing nothing to kill that perpetuated class image of heals, refresh and haste. You build from the ground up, not near or at the level cap.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

While still doing nothing to kill that perpetuated class image of heals, refresh and haste. You build from the ground up, not near or at the level cap.

It's not great, but the image exists because so many people play it like that, or leveled it to use it like that.

It's so late in the game that this image will probably exist for the rest of the games lifespan, that's not to say they couldn't help RDM melee as I still think they should, even if it's only for a small group of people.

[cidbahamut]

I fear if you guys get the changes you want, that I will end up no longer enjoying my favorite job.

Red Mage needs at most some tweaking, not a complete overhaul/redesign. Please don't destroy the job I've known and loved since I first logged in.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I fear if you guys get the changes you want, that I will end up no longer enjoying my favorite job.

Red Mage needs at most some tweaking, not a complete overhaul/redesign. Please don't destroy the job I've known and loved since I first logged in.

Asking for what RDM is supposed to be IS NOT changing the job. You want a cure bot or enhancer level WHM.

[cidbahamut]

How is asking for changes not changing the job? Especially when they're on the scale some of you folks are suggesting.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

How is asking for changes not changing the job? Especially when they're on the scale some of you folks are suggesting.

I'm asking for melee to be improved to at least a decent level, will that allow us to Melee in parties? probably not, but melee is part of RDM.

If you're cool with enhancing and curing go on ahead, I'm not stopping you, nor am I asking SE to remove those aspects, only asking to make melee decent like a RDM's White Magic and Black Magic is.

Asking for small changes does NOT instantly change what a job is, almost every other job has been getting the changes in some way or another with no impact on the jobs primary duties.