On Red Mage melee...

[Razushu]

friend has 30 hours total time farmed trying to get it D:

That is awful I once spent a weekend in Aydeewa Subterrane farming Fenrir's crown I lost the will to live... almost

[Hyrist]

Aurura assumes the worst out of players, which is fine. It all boils down the the individual players, after all.

To cross quote:

In terms of FFXI this translates into "It is certainly possible to judge jobs based on their options, but it takes a player who is competent enough to put this into practice."

This has led to people moving on from saying "X is better than Y" towards "Player's X is better than Player's X". In the Super Street Fighter 4 community you will hear people saying "Daigo's Ryu", "JWong's Rufus", "Air's Ryu" or "Mike Ross' Honda". In Marvel VS Capcom 3; "Marn's Team". In Brawl "Ken's Marth". It's a simple show of respect to the skill of the players before the options in the characters.

To me, Red Mage's aren't a front line job.

To me, Hyrist's Red Mage is a front liner.

To me, Blue Mage's aren't the best soloers.

To me, Draylo's Blue Mage makes the some of the best soloing efforts ever recorded.

No matter what update comes about, it will be up to the individual Red Mages to make the best or worst of it. Again, you woulden't catch me dead Meleeing in Mage gear so long as my Macros are working properly, but the reverse is also the same.

But the first step would be making an utility that would be useful in many situations. Deducting an enemy's TP gain is not broken. Truth of the matter is, the game has far too few methods to handle TP attacks, which is why the TP argument is so prominant among melees. Giving Red Mage a front line method to address it would solve a lot of problems across the board.

But it would still be up to the Red Mage to preform well in the front lines. That can be regarded both with playstyle changes, and with further updates.

[ManaKing]

I guess we both play RDM differently, I appreciate you not being a complete dick and claim to have "won" the conversation/debate like some people do.

LOL no one wins this debate. This debate exists so that people can share ideas. If your purpose was to brainstorm and share ideas, then that is as close to winning as you can get.

If you came here to tell people what they already know, then you are redundant at best and wasting your time at worst. I don't care if you want to try to waste my time on this forum, but I would appreciate it if you wouldn't do it in the brainstorming and theorycraft thread because it is rude to tell people what they should think.

[Hyrist]

Not to metion speaking in absolutist terms.

Someone tells me 'can't', 'never', etc. It translates to me as "I won't try."

There are people who do push the envelope, and have convinced their peers as to the benefits, and they know the risks and know how to weigh them better than those who simply theorycraft or parrot that it's 'bad'.

Of course there's horrible RDMs in the front line meleeing in mage gear. They make my eyes roll too. However, you canot use that as the example for every Red Mage who actually puts the effort into preforming well, nor can you fault those who are making a genuine effort for continuing to persue and request update for, an aspect of the job that is, to this day, still being advertised as the iconic RDM of olde.

Mose of those who are posting in the thread, have persued this at the very least on the hobby level and have all felt the shortcommings. We've also seen the shining aspects of it. This conversation has gone on back or forth a good 8 years and it has influenced some updates for the job. A lot of the arguments being said here, they've been heard, ad nasuem, before the offical boards even came up. So hitting frayed nerves should not be unexpected.

You may not like the solutions that were come up with, or the ideas that are coming about, but we're most certainly not doing it with closed eyes. However, given the furstrations of almost a decade worth of the job becoming a shadow of what it, in many Red Mage's opinions, should be, some of us are willing to see the job get broken first in order to get fixed properly.

[Aurara]

LOL no one wins this debate. This debate exists so that people can share ideas. If your purpose was to brainstorm and share ideas, then that is as close to winning as you can get.

If you came here to tell people what they already know, then you are redundant at best and wasting your time at worst. I don't care if you want to try to waste my time on this forum, but I would appreciate it if you wouldn't do it in the brainstorming and theorycraft thread because it is rude to tell people what they should think.

It appears you missed my point.
Edit: I never told anyone how to think, i just said it wasnt efficient, we have different play styles and opinions about rdm, let it go already.

[Hyrist]

That said Aurara, I'd encourage you to try to push your limits in the Melee department on RDM. Even if you find it inefficient, it's an aspect of the job that provides a challenge unique in to itself.

I woulden't go so far to say start Meleeing Voidwatch, of course. But gather the bits of gear, start working on the Magian Swords. (Badelair path if you're leary of trying to get people to help you with Empy drops, then probably OA 2-4 Khanda for offhand.)

Even as a hobby, you might find it as a worthile venture that could change your opinions on the job a bit.

[Aurara]

I have a melee build for rdm, i'm working on STR sword for blu, I'm also working on almace. Making a melee set on rdm would be really easy:
Almace/OAT or STR+9
Zelus/PCC/Brutal/Suppa
Goliard/Dusk/Rajas/Accring
Atheling/Goading/ASA3/Dusk+1

[Hyrist]

I have a melee build for rdm, i'm working on STR sword for blu, I'm also working on almace. Making a melee set on rdm would be really easy:
Almace/OAT or STR+9
Zelus/PCC/Brutal/Suppa
Goliard/Dusk/Rajas/Accring
Atheling/Goading/ASA3/Dusk+1

http://www.ffxiah.com/item/11958/calmecac-trousers

[Aurara]

Seeing as i have the 3% ASA legs already, i doubt i'll spend the $ on those because i never use melee rdm ever.

[Hyrist]

It has a large job list that justifies the purchase if you have other jobs that can use it.

Consiter Dex 9 as well for CDC, as it's a full dex mod. I'd go OA 2-4 just for the superior TP building but that's just more a taste thing, you probably get better results on your BLU using the OAT.

I'm still playing between Raja's/ACC and Lava's-Kusha's.

It's all a matter of tastes though. I prefer to open for others when I'm front-lining on RDM. And the faster TP building in trade for a bit of damage seems to result in higher overall group output, and more burst oppertuinity for myself and other mages.