On Red Mage melee...

[Supersun]

I've actually thought about an enspell that absorbs TP.

It certainly would address the issue of a Rdm TP feeding and also boost their damage in the process.

It wouldn't even necessarily need to absorb more then the Red Mage deals. I mean other jobs feed some level of TP. This spell could just help lower Red Mage to more their level since Red Mage really does feed a ridiculous amount of TP.

There's a few issues with that though.

1) It would severely limit any kind of TP altering enfeeble in the future as this stacked with that would practically destroy the possibility of monsters TPing with the right set-up

2) It would be very difficult to balance. The spell would either give a very small amount of TP back or would virtually let Rdm melee solo stupidly difficult things from never feeding them TP. The spell can't ever pass 25% of your base TP since any more then that and 50% SB and +50 agility pretty much means you don't feed TP. The only way for it to pass 25% would be for it to factor in AFTER SB and Agi and well...if you are subbing /nin this spell will get destroyed since the TP will already be reduced quite a bit after SB and Agi. It would be VERY difficult for this spell to surpass the damage our current enspells can do while still keeping it balanced unless it did some form of damage itself.

[Hyrist]

A TP damaging Melee skill, like all the other utilities, would have to function much like Sambas, in that it's more reliant on the players around us than us. A small portion of damage dealt by the party would deal damage to the enemy's TP.

The problem is, it would work identicle to subtle blow.

An Enspell that Drains TP would be superior to Absorb TP which they probably woulden't want to happen either.

And that's really the crux of it. Put bluntly, Dancer ruined enspells, and any idea of a melee utility will instantly bring up the idea of dancer itself. If there is going to be a frontline utility, it's going to have to bite the bullet and realize it's going to step on Dancers' toes a tad.

BUT, they have plenty. AND we were the origonal 'Additional Effect' job. So I'm not all that worried. It's the developers ya gotta convince... and they can get shy on that side.

[Supersun]

Not necessarily.

Dancer only generally receives offensive melee utility (sometimes it receives some other types but are they very few and generally vastly unused).

Very few jobs receive defensive and magic utility connected to melee.

It's hard to connect magic utility to the front line because it doesn't actually do anything to enhance the melee it's connected too unless it's designed really well, and most situations where you would want that magic related utility are generally monsters that aren't safe to melee on. Not to mention there are a LOT of situations where anything you want magic related utility for you don't want people meleeing.

Defensive utility connected to melee is a pretty niche position. For non HNM monsters it's generally not that helpful as it doesn't really do anything to help kill the monster faster which is the only thing that matters in most non HNM situations. It's actually quite useful on HNMs if designed properly where the job meleeing for the utility is mitigating more risk then he's giving. The only issue is that this would be the exact opposite of what most people want Red Mage melle to be since this would be magic fodder, melee bosses.

For Non-HNM mobs not much else beats offensive utility. Yes, it does tend to be dancers territory, but at the same time jobs never 100% own any one role. There are always other jobs that have buffs of some sort that the primary job is lacking and a T3 of enspells could easily fill this spot. I mean it's not entirely unprecedented for enspells to receive some form of utility. It'd just be nice if that utility doesn't suck and is weaker and doesn't stack with a 1 sec cast from a spell from your /nin.

Though like I've mentioned they could easily move our melee to have a more magic related offensive and defensive utility if our damage became more magic based like giving us a powerful elemental WS and possibly making enspell T3s be heavily modified from mage stats and attributes (You'd still equip melee/haste armor, but you might opt for some more mage related buffs especially from Cor).

[CapriciousOne]

I disagree Concerned4FFxi, we haven't had a increase with enspells since like level 50 and the orginals where below level 20. We should already had a tier 3 around levels 75-80 so tier 4 should be the final one for RDM. Since we really are the best in enhancing I don't see why there is a Enspellaga around level 50 that would've capped out around level 90 with a tier 3 version.

[CapriciousOne]

That is kind of the whole point Mirage we rarely get to demonstrate that side of our Versatiliy because of all the whiny people.

[CapriciousOne]

The thing for me isnt about being the best or average DD but the fact is that considering the recase timer on our most damaging spells and the high mp cost of such, physical damage is a more consistent and reliable way to damage a mob. Personally I think it is dumb to let anybody with a combat weapon skill B or higher keep thier weapon holstered. I hate leechers and as a RDM that can do more than be a freaking nurse that is exactly how I feel like i'm leeching. Sure I should probably be happy and just enjoy but that is what lazy weak people do and that isnt me. I much rather let the WHM do it thing with group heals and do what I can to help tank keep hate off of him and lighten his load, Especially since alot of WHM group spells cover more people for about the same mp as my single target spells but I guess that is "unreasonable" to some people. (sigh)

[CapriciousOne]

Well personally I think we have more power than we choose or let the naysayers believe. RDM unite to form there own parties as well as dismantiling those that we are in by not healing and hasting is one way to force about a change but good luck finding people who have the fortitude to accomplish this despite the complaints and curses that will be surely thrown at them for it.

Truthfully, with or without new weapons/ weaponskills/ spells I think SE sees this as hugely a player base problem and thus "outside their jurisdiction" or sorts. In fact even if they finally do give us all that we ask for and even more it is sitll an issue of the community as a whole getting their heads out of their rears to see the world of possibilities.

[Greatguardian]

There are plenty of other things you can be doing to benefit the group and keep yourself busy. It is not like your only two options are melee and Heal/Haste/Refresh/AFK. That's a dichotomy introduced by really, really crappy Red Mages that only know how to Heal, Haste, and Refresh and want an excuse to be worthless.

Eg: "Ugh guys, I wouldn't be such an absolute waste of oxygen if you just let me melee. Since you won't let me melee, I'll just sit here and afk while occasionally attempting to perform rudimentary tasks that you could train a chimp to do instead of actually playing the game because I'm spoiled and if I don't get what I want I'll just suck so bad that you'll be better off just letting me have my way no matter how terrible my melee is." - If you think I don't see this every single day, you're crazy. I have dealt with dozens of these people, and every single time I have determined that they simply are not worth my time.

I have zero sympathy for people who claim to be bored, or cite monotony with Red Mage. It is one of the most intense and involved jobs in the entire game, next to a properly played HNM-class Paladin. If you can't find anything to do but heal, haste, and refresh, I challenge you to find something to do. There will always be something. You will never be bored with it if you do it right. Kindly ignore the really crappy posters in here who talk about Haste-botting like its the only other alternative to melee'ing. They only come off as extremely incompetent Red Mages.

[Supersun]

What do you expect? Half of those Rdms you know probably only leveled it as a ToaU meriting gravy train for pink birds where there pretty much was nothing else to do besides Heal, Haste, and Refresh with the occasional Dia III if your party didn't ***** at you because everything else you were going to do was going to be reflected back by those pink little birds.

[Greatguardian]

If you want me to be perfectly honest, most of them leveled Red Mage just to melee as a magic swordsman because they liked the lore or somesuch. Then they were told that meleeing in full AF is absolutely not acceptable in any realm of possibility and proceeded to intentionally suck so bad at everything else that people will, they hope, stop caring and let them do what they want. All of the absolute worst Red (and white) Mages I have ever met have had a raging hard-on for Melee'ing.

I'm not going to make broad generalizations, though. I know they were individuals, correlation does not imply causation, etc. I was simply saying that the dichotomy drawn by Duelle and many others here between Haste-botting and Melee'ing is complete and utter hogwash, and that there are plenty of other (more efficient) ways to occupy oneself than melee'ing.

Straight up, any Red Mage that only Hastes, Refreshes, and Cures is a Monster Trucking horrible Red Mage.