On Red Mage melee...

[Rearden]

Because we need more macc?

Seriously, if we can land it, we're going to land it with or without a staff.
From there the extra mind froma weapon slot is going to add like what? .3% more slow?

(Slow is really only so useful up until the point that your DDs can recast Utsu between swings.)

Someone's never fought a monster outside of Abyssea

[Gokku]

this has honestly made me curious... what would you parse against at 90? sand sweepers are probably the most common mob but you can pretty much 1-shot them with a good ws.. and anything in abyssea will have varying levels as you go..

anybody that parses on carbuncle? my rdm hasn't been parsed since the colibri days, back on gilgamesh (i actually won, but it wasn't a real test to prove anything, it was just some guy who ran parser all the time. long story short the odds were unfairly in my favor, and i admit that.)

if you ever want to parse lemme know 90 or 75 im able to gear up either since it seems the other guy hasn't done it yet on rdm.

[Supersun]

Someone's never fought a monster outside of Abyssea

Someone's missing the fact that it's pretty easy to cap our enfeebles with or without a wand.

I mean when I first saw the Esto neck piece I just facepalmed because I realized that in 99% of situations it would be virtually worthless due to how easy it was to cap spells. Monsters really don't have high enough mnd in general to pose a problem.

GG is right about one weapon and that's the Cure Staff. That's a weapon that's slightly hard to get around. At the same time though we aren't asking to melee on every monster in the game. If there's something that is mean enough that it would warrant stepping back and using a cure staff that's not a problem.

We aren't and have never been asking to melee on HNMs. If somethings dicky enough that a blue mage has to step back and cannonball spam like the ACP crystal that's fine. At the same time it would be SLIGHTLY nice to have the bar for acceptable meleeing raised slightly higher then just exp.

There are plenty of non HNM level mobs that would be nice to have some level of acceptable melee. A common motto has been "Melee fodder, Magic bosses" Fodder doesn't apply to just exp, there are plenty of NMs that most people would dump into the fodder category. It would be nice to receive some level of buff at least to accommodate those.

Hyrist also mentioned that someone told him to not even bother with that parse until he has an Evi set for 75.

[Greatguardian]

So basically this:

No it doesn't rdm shouldn't be meleeing anything except trash exp mobs(and even then those die in like 1 WS so whats the point?)

I dare say everyone is in agreement then. Except for the people who very specifically are talking about RDM on stronger NMs and HNMs. Which is the point.

Also, dMND is not that easy to cap. On things we're 15 levels higher than they were designed for? Sure. In Abyssea? Sure. In level 90+ content? No way in hell. Honestly, Voidwatch is the only content worth comparing anything on because it's the only non-Abyssea content that's actually fit for our level.

[Supersun]

It's really not.

To cap slow II you need a dMnd of 75.

Most monsters don't really have much more mnd then your own base stats. Monsters have never had particularly high base stats with a few exceptions like Kirin and his like 120 Int.

I mean from there if even my gimpy mnd set can give me +100 Mnd it really shouldn't be that difficult to cap.

I mean you mention abyssea, but I wouldn't be surprised if I could cap most of my enfeebles naked in there.

[Rayik]

However then you are negatively impacting your melee by using M.Acc weapons instead of STR+ using those weapons. You do lose the bonus MND+ from weapon/shield to buffs as well as MND based debuffs. Also no cure potency+ staff/club for curing?

Pretty sure a HQ/magican staff is going to outdo the +INT and MAB you get off the dual wielded swords as well.

Obviously the staves give more for spellcatsing, that's part of the trade-off(and problem). I'm not all that worried about staff MAB for nukes; RDM nukes are nothing to write home about, even when fully buffed. They're pretty much just there to proc, or for helping with azure lights. I made the MAB swords as an experiment, and because the trial paths are so easy to do(made 3 MAB weps in a week just for fun). But even then, if I'm dual-wielding them, they're giving me +18 INT and +20 MAB... along with each sword having a DMG of 54 for starters, before adding en-spells. A pair of M.Acc swords gives +30 M. Acc and +150 mp if I wanted to. So yeah, not missing out all that much. Still need to make a STR Shamshir though, but sort of holding out on seeing if I can get help on an Almace or OAT Khanda.

And no, no potency staff/club for curing. I've started one though, because I've seen you can do most of the trials quick and easy in Nyzule Isle. Just haven't got around to it yet.

[Rayik]

But you know what you would be benefiting from? Wands. You can add 17 MND in your main/sub slot in place of your swords, which drastically affects the potency of your dMND based enfeebles. The argument that "Any slow is good enough as long as people don't die" is honestly folly, especially when you take multipliers into account like Saboteur.

If that's the case, we can get +18 MND from magian swords, so thanks for the idea!

Idling in TP gear also prevents you from idling in Refresh gear. Outside Abyssea, the loss in MP adds up significantly over time. Not only are you losing MP recovery (1 earring, 2 body, 1 head, 1 legs, 1 hands/feet, 6/tick, or 1,000 MP per Convert assuming maxed merits), but you're spending more MP by taking damage and curing yourself.

If you need all of that MP on content harder than Abyssea, you should never be melee'ing. If you don't need all that MP on content harder than Abyssea, you should be burning the excess off in Nukes and doing more damage, more safely, than if you were melee'ing while still maintaining full casting potency on all of your other spells.

Good thing we have this handy-dandy spell that gives us 6mp/tic regardless of gear. Refresh gear just adds even more mp. And if we're idling anyway, a simple gear swap to refresh gear solves the "Idle in TP gear" problem you pose. Seriously, if we're just idling, why would we idle in tp gear? Did you mean "tp phase" and not "idle"?

Lastly, my ws's do similar damage as my nukes, more most of the time even. The extra damage during tp phase in addition to WS damage is a fair bit more DoT than just sitting back nuking, blowing through all my mp(that could've been used to cure and buff).

[Neisan_Quetz]

... Don't nuke in MAB swords. Not even Blus bother with Macc swords because they're just that much of a waste. Nice experiment, but you wasted your effort.

[Rearden]

Your WS do similar damage to your nukes.

Your nukes are nothing to write home about.

[Rayik]

Your WS do similar damage to your nukes.

Your nukes are nothing to write home about.

I think I said that, exactly that.

...RDM nukes are nothing to write home about,

Yep, I sure did.



This is the most redundant talking-in-circles discussion I think I have ever taken part in.