On Red Mage melee...

[Supersun]

My Sanguine in Dynamis Sandy iirc hits for 800-1100 depending on the monster.

Then again...it's always double dark weather in there and I use an obi :P
(My Sanguine set is pretty bad though since I essentially just use my AE set with just a different body)

[Neisan_Quetz]

Sang blade doesn't nearly make up for the loss in DoT. Ofc the best option would be getting both but alas, it was not meant to be as far as SE is concerned.

[Seriha]

I'm not really knowledgeable on RDM melee, But i think Evisceration would be the better WS than Sanguine Blade for pure damage. Not including survivability. I'm working on the Assumption the RDM is trying to do his fair share of Damage.

While going the physical route will probably lead to Evisceration's favor, it's possible to gear and atma yourself to allow SB to break 2.5k consistently. As a job that evades like a brick, SB's utility aspect of self-curing might be more beneficial in the long term since you can eliminate the need to cast shadows, stoneskins, and even cures when you're soaking up 1k+ HP per WS. Such is pretty much how I handled the lizard phase of my WS% sword for brewing purposes.

Either way, the downside of the SB build is your crit rate goes down, and obviously we're giving up /NIN. Downside of Evisc is even with RR and such, you could still get some stinker WS that'd barely break 1k, but you could also get lucky and break 3k. Better gear and such will steer you toward the latter, but if you're not in a situation where someone else can watch your back while you focus on damage, again, SB might be the better bet.

Outside, hitting around 1k with SB should be doable. Evisc could spike higher, but this is also where our juggling act in ATK/ACC/STR and such in the WS phase can catch up with us without cruor buffs picking up the slack.

[Supersun]

Well who knows. They said there are weapon skill adjustments coming. It really wouldn't surprise me if that was one of them because let's be honest. Getting AE with crap dagger selection while NOT getting Sanguine natively is BS lol

[Seriha]

We can only hope, but I'm looking at that about as optimistically as I am new enfeebles. Until SE tells us more, it's hard to get excited.

[wish12oz]

I have a BRD mule that would outparse you guys and yet this topic still continues.

This wins the thread.

(Slow is really only so useful up until the point that your DDs can recast Utsu between swings.)

If you would stand in the back and do your job, your melees could sub SAM and WAR and not be terrible.

[Supersun]

If you would stand in the back and do your job, your melees could sub SAM and WAR and not be terrible.

And this is why people fail at voidwatch.

People just expect to go at it like abyssea where you just send DDs at the mob and a whm spams cure 5.

A little survivability goes a long way especially when there's no rush to kill anything since you want some time to actually proc mobs anyway.

[Aurara]

And this is why people fail at voidwatch.

People just expect to go at it like abyssea where you just send DDs at the mob and a whm spams cure 5.

A little survivability goes a long way especially when there's no rush to kill anything since you want some time to actually proc mobs anyway.

Kam and I do voidwatch together, we have an ochain pld, and kam goes nin or war/nin for VW stuff(sub sam if we have strong support on or if its a T1/2 VWNM). Seriously, we proc, I'm the whm, i can still spam cures, i just need to let the pld cure himself for hate because unlike other DDs, pld can't hold hate with just DoT/WS they actually have to try. RDM can proc just fine from the back lines.

[wish12oz]

I do not sub ninja on war, ever.
I also dual box my own WHM, and die a lot, but that would happen if I was subbing NIN too, so it doesn't matter.

[Greatguardian]

So this thread ended nicely after people were unable to budge on the arguments they presented and lost.

Then it starts all over because someone decides to completely ignore the lost argument and bring up a new one?

What you're saying boils down to "Any DD contribution is better than no DD contribution as long as it does not negatively affect my casting role", is this correct? Unfortunately, that statement is not true, especially outside Abyssea. Landing Enfeebles is not the same as landing strong Enfeebles. Staves are not, and have never been, the end-all-be-all weapon for casting spells because, as far as Enfeebles are concerned, they simply add Accuracy. And you're right, if your accuracy is capped, you aren't benefiting from staves. Except Surya's. Surya's is awesome and if you are healing at all ever, the loss of that staff is a huge deal.

But you know what you would be benefiting from? Wands. You can add 17 MND in your main/sub slot in place of your swords, which drastically affects the potency of your dMND based enfeebles. The argument that "Any slow is good enough as long as people don't die" is honestly folly, especially when you take multipliers into account like Saboteur.

Idling in TP gear also prevents you from idling in Refresh gear. Outside Abyssea, the loss in MP adds up significantly over time. Not only are you losing MP recovery (1 earring, 2 body, 1 head, 1 legs, 1 hands/feet, 6/tick, or 1,000 MP per Convert assuming maxed merits), but you're spending more MP by taking damage and curing yourself.

If you need all of that MP on content harder than Abyssea, you should never be melee'ing. If you don't need all that MP on content harder than Abyssea, you should be burning the excess off in Nukes and doing more damage, more safely, than if you were melee'ing while still maintaining full casting potency on all of your other spells.

You can come in here and complain all you want about how "You know RDM Melee sucks", but the fact of the matter is that people here are claiming that it does not right now. Do not dare to call us trolls when we are simply debating point of fact with people who, frankly, made the ridiculous claims first.