On Red Mage melee...

[Aurara]

Blus are in the back cannonball spamming on, but lowmaning stuff is becoming even more and more common, and with lowmanning hybridization is important. It would be nice to be able to perform to SOME decent standard at those times.

You perform well by making sure mobs are debuffed and melees hastes and mages refresh'd etc. Also blu doesn't spam cannonball if its that lowman, they usually melee(assuming they have almace/good melee/PDT/MDT builds).

[Rayik]

You perform well by making sure mobs are debuffed and melees hastes and mages refresh'd etc. Also blu doesn't spam cannonball if its that lowman, they usually melee(assuming they have almace/good melee/PDT/MDT builds).

And this can all be done while meleeing. You do realize you can set the target for your spell in a macro, right? Standing there swinging weapons does not in any way impede on spellcasting.

[Thunderlips]

If I'm meleeing, I'm not swapping staves. I personally have pairs of MAB and M.Acc Shamshirs, just in case my spells need a boost. Really, if I'm meleeing it, chances are my capped and merited enfeebling skill is landing my spells just fine. If I'm having trouble landing spells, then I'll change up gear as needed. If I'm still not landing them, it's either highly resistant or flat-out immune. Don't really need M.Acc to land Cures and buffs, MND and enhancing gear swaps take care of that.

However then you are negatively impacting your melee by using M.Acc weapons instead of STR+ using those weapons. You do lose the bonus MND+ from weapon/shield to buffs as well as MND based debuffs. Also no cure potency+ staff/club for curing?

Pretty sure a HQ/magican staff is going to outdo the +INT and MAB you get off the dual wielded swords as well.

And this can all be done while meleeing. You do realize you can set the target for your spell in a macro, right? Standing there swinging weapons does not in any way impede on spellcasting.

I guess this would come down to the person playing the job, but I would have to say from person experience I have seen people let buffs slide so they can get those last 1-2 melee swings in they need to hit 100 TP and do another WS.

[Karbuncle]

Well yeah, if we had sanguine natively I would think Joy/OaT Khanda would be optimal for damage.

Double attack loses quite a bit of value on a weapon when your primary WS can't double attack.

While I agree that losing Dual Wield is a pretty big hit on your DoT it's not quite as bad as if we were talking about a physical WS here and certainly not as bad as not wearing haste gear.

TP phase damage yes, it's about as bad, but I forget the numbers atm, but dropping dual wield isn't going to drop your WS frequency nearly as bad as dropping haste would, and it's not like magical WSs receive the +1fTP from dual wielding that a physical WS would receive.

Is it a hit to your damage? Sure, I estimate that it would drop us ~20%, but sometimes there are situations where you need the extra survivability even if momentarily at the expense of your damage.

Well i would have to respectfully disagree. Gaining a 25% boost to your attack speed is very significant, especially if you're already stacking 25% Haste and Haste spell. I would say far more significant than its being played as.

I'm not really knowledgeable on RDM melee, But i think Evisceration would be the better WS than Sanguine Blade for pure damage. Not including survivability. I'm working on the Assumption the RDM is trying to do his fair share of Damage.

I think even Death Blossom would be better than Sanguine for pure Damage.

Either way, Maybe we're arguing two different Aspects, but as far as pure damage goes, I think Evisceration will beat Sanguine Blade, and would be the better option, so Dual Wielding will always work in your favor (What with not needing to sub something lesser because of not having Natural Sanguine)

[Supersun]

Dual Wield and Haste don't compound off of each other. Adding +25% dual wield is going to increase your TP damage by 33% irregardless of how much haste you have (unless you are hitting the delay cap obviously). Doesn't matter if you have 0 haste or 25 haste it's still going to increase it the same proportion.

And I really doubt Evi and DB are going to beat Sanguine on Rdm. We really don't have that great of options for physical WSs (and our dagger selection kinda sucks now), but we have AMAZING options for elemental WSs. Heck, I hit a 1.1k AE outside of abyssea, and my AE set is lacking some very important pieces. I myself would be using AE over sanguine blade, but that requires a TP bonus dagger and we are excluded from the TotM daggers while the martial knife kills your DOT. Even then Sanguine usually outperforms AE.

Though I do agree that this is only possible if we receive Sanguine natively.

[Karbuncle]

Dual Wield and Haste don't compound off of each other. Adding +25% dual wield is going to increase your TP damage by 33% irregardless of how much haste you have (unless you are hitting the delay cap obviously). Doesn't matter if you have 0 haste or 25 haste it's still going to increase it the same proportion.

And I really doubt Evi and DB are going to beat Sanguine on Rdm. We really don't have that great of options for physical WSs (and our dagger selection kinda sucks now), but we have AMAZING options for elemental WSs. Heck, I hit a 1.1k AE outside of abyssea, and my AE set is lacking some very important pieces. I myself would be using AE over sanguine blade, but that requires a TP bonus dagger and we are excluded from the TotM daggers while the martial knife kills your DOT. Even then Sanguine usually outperforms AE.

Though I do agree that this is only possible if we receive Sanguine natively.

As i said I'm not amazingly indepth on RDM melee, Just always figured Evisc > Sanguine.

However, Twilight Knife is a pretty decent dagger for RDM, very decent even... But its true RDM WS Gear is rather limited, Hell even on THF on mobs like Dynamis-Xarc my Evis rarely average higher than 1k unstacked... Maybe I'mdoingitwrong (I don't think i am -.-) but i can see how a RDM would be far worse off.

I need to play with RDM a bit more, But i still think losing Dual wield would not be worth gaining Sanguine Blade. I could be wrong, Just my view on it. (though i think you said that in your last line).

[wish12oz]

I have a BRD mule that would outparse you guys and yet this topic still continues.

This wins the thread.

(Slow is really only so useful up until the point that your DDs can recast Utsu between swings.)

If you would stand in the back and do your job, your melees could sub SAM and WAR and not be terrible.

[Supersun]

If you would stand in the back and do your job, your melees could sub SAM and WAR and not be terrible.

And this is why people fail at voidwatch.

People just expect to go at it like abyssea where you just send DDs at the mob and a whm spams cure 5.

A little survivability goes a long way especially when there's no rush to kill anything since you want some time to actually proc mobs anyway.

[Aurara]

And this is why people fail at voidwatch.

People just expect to go at it like abyssea where you just send DDs at the mob and a whm spams cure 5.

A little survivability goes a long way especially when there's no rush to kill anything since you want some time to actually proc mobs anyway.

Kam and I do voidwatch together, we have an ochain pld, and kam goes nin or war/nin for VW stuff(sub sam if we have strong support on or if its a T1/2 VWNM). Seriously, we proc, I'm the whm, i can still spam cures, i just need to let the pld cure himself for hate because unlike other DDs, pld can't hold hate with just DoT/WS they actually have to try. RDM can proc just fine from the back lines.

[Aurara]

You dont have to melee for those spells to be useful you know.