On Red Mage melee...

[wish12oz]

I always liked
DD DD BRD BRD COR Healer
But it required very good DDs!

[Greatguardian]

I always liked
DD DD BRD BRD COR Healer
But it required very good DDs!

I was the Cor for one of these once. It was absolutely divine. I wish I parsed it. Rather, I think I might've, let's see.

Edit: Okay, yeah, I still have some of it. This is ye olde 2009, MJSP.



If a Corsair, fully buffed, was doing 50%~ the damage of the DDs, there is no way in hell that a RDM is going to be doing anywhere near 80%.

[Supersun]

Would the "sky fall"? Subjective.

Not really, because in both of the set-ups above as long as everyone doesn't suck you should already be at the point where you are waiting on the Colibri to respawn anyway.

[Greatguardian]

Not really, because in both of the set-ups above as long as everyone doesn't suck you should already be at the point where you are waiting on the Colibri to respawn anyway.

In a Whm Brd Rdm DD DD DD setup? I'll believe it when I see it.

[Seriha]

As for the entire "why take 80% when you can have 100%", it's a trap. The argument actually has no meaning because it preemptively subtracts from the RDM and limits them to "80%" while ignoring what they gain. In effect it's saying a RDM without MP, without Dia, without Cure IV, sleeps, are all only "80%" and that the other nameless DD is given all it's options / ability's at 100%. RDM's sacrifice damage potential for utility. Back in the day's of "6-man" groups I would do...

It's hardly a trap. When your party is 5/6 people and it's time to fill that sixth spot with damage, it's not the time to be looking for emergency cures, a Dia your healer or 'lazy bard' could throw up, or even a secondary haster. They just want people who will concentrate on dishing hurt. Concentrating solely on that task, there's no bones about it, RDM fell behind due to native characteristics and gear options.

So, while Abyssea has changed EXPing dynamics from 6 to a possible 18, that 5/6 dilemma still remains for smaller events like BCs. When hitting the search list for a DD, RDM won't be on the radar outside of Azure kills. If the job is supposed to be suitably versatile, it's failing in that task if it will never be invited for an aspect of that versatility. Haters gonna hate, claiming that's how it should be or nothing could be done without godmode, but that only shows their lack of thinking.

[wish12oz]

Not really, because in both of the set-ups above as long as everyone doesn't suck you should already be at the point where you are waiting on the Colibri to respawn anyway.

Suck less and kill wivres and colibri

[Duelle]

It's hardly a trap. When your party is 5/6 people and it's time to fill that sixth spot with damage, it's not the time to be looking for emergency cures, a Dia your healer or 'lazy bard' could throw up, or even a secondary haster. They just want people who will concentrate on dishing hurt. Concentrating solely on that task, there's no bones about it, RDM fell behind due to native characteristics and gear options.

This is the crux of my damage argument. You're not looking for the utility as part of the package. Utility generally plays the role of "well, that really helped" when the party is in a pinch. It is never a point of consideration when putting the party together. The "here and the now" of the job/class is what is measured when building the group. In the old days we also saw the variation, which was "good groups don't run into X, so Y piece of utility is moot. Now get in the back and refresh me".

If the job is supposed to be suitably versatile, it's failing in that task if it will never be invited for an aspect of that versatility. Haters gonna hate, claiming that's how it should be or nothing could be done without godmode, but that only shows their lack of thinking.

Well, yes. The devs seem to be bent on giving everyone very different roles for the sake of making the jobs different rather than create templates or criteria that allow said jobs to partake on certain roles.

The main issue is the fact that the hybrids become tricky (but not impossible) to balance at that point. I wouldn't mind seeing multiple roles open up for RDM, BLU, PLD and DRK, but the developers seem to take issue with that for some reason.

[Eeek]

In a Whm Brd Rdm DD DD DD setup? I'll believe it when I see it.

Well, he's half right.

Like everyone else, I spent more time than I would've liked at Colibri camps, but as a pulling BRD. It's not a good setup, but WHM BRD RDM DD DD DD could certainly clear all the birds at the middle camp. What that party setup couldn't do is kill the Wivres, pull from the bottom birds camp, and pull Mamool from up top in addition to keeping all the middle birds cleared.

RDM is a waste of a party slot in that configuration, DDing or otherwise.

When your party is 5/6 people and it's time to fill that sixth spot with damage, it's not the time to be looking for emergency cures, a Dia your healer or 'lazy bard' could throw up, or even a secondary haster.

Wow, you'd have to be crazy to pass up a second BRD for that 6th spot, especially if meriting on Nyzul Mamool or at MMJSP North. 114 attack from double minuets (and the situational madrigal when dealing with THF/NIN Mamools, depending on the quality of DDs) is not insignificant. And I guarantee you that the 'lazy BRD' role at Nyzul Mamool or MMJSP North was anything but lazy.

[Seriha]

You're assuming the hypothetical party wasn't 2x BRD, healer, 2x DDs already. Overall, the 'lazy BRD' role was the one who'd just sit at the camp while the other pulled. Would you get the occasional double pullers? Sure, but then that also starts stepping into outside healer territory, which I dare say wasn't common in all the time I spent poking peckers and such. So, yeah, find something else in your unerring fascination with me to nitpick.

[Aurara]

No...it's not being a lazy brd if you help cure the DDs/sleep incoming mobs so that the other brd can keep pulling/give them time to cast minuets(in my case i would have the "lazy brd" as you put it sing marches because they're always at camp). You dont need an outside healer unless its a mule or something, but these kinds of parties certainly weren't "rare" as you claimed them to be.