On Red Mage melee...

[Hyrist]

He should really challenge them to a 90-cap fight.

It's not so much a challenge as it is for me data gathering. That's the essential difference in attitude, I suppose. But yeah, that would be more relevant to today. But I'm even further behind that point, and then there's the issue with Weapon Skills... I doubt I'd go Dagger/Sword optimally. Especially if I got an Almace. Probably Almace/DA sword depending on how balancing between more frequent CDC vs higher melee dps compares. Kind of hard to when OA2-4 and DA sword are non-exclusive.

on the best/v/best thing, I was talking about not imposing any restrictions. Let each player gear to the best of their abilities.

Curbing bitter words, that would result in just as hollow a victory. Whoever's further along in the gear has the best advantage. I mean, even wish was like "See, my gear isn't the best, that's an advantage to you!" and I was eyeing it going "Hmm... 3% haste advantage on gear I could have... 5 Acc on a STR ring, that would be nice." And I was only really paying attention to gear we both could have.

I mean wish mentions Mandau as the only hope for even 50%, which leads me to think the issue lies in base damage of a weapon. Which makes me wonder as to her opinion of lighter damage jobs such as PUP, DNC, and especialy THF during that time and whether or not they could reach that 80% or even the 50%, and what gear they would have for that reach.

That should probably be the better comparison points for 75.

Took me 1 week to build a friend a 85 Almace, and he did half the work Solo.

Most the intial legwork all the way up to base Almace isn't hard. It's the competition level on Sobek that makes it frustrating as all hell. As far as 'relic' level weapon goes, that's the obvious goal to go for due to the reletive ease comapred to true Relic and Mythic weapons.

[Rearden]

Non-mandau THF not fighting Colibri was there for COR rolls

Edit: We're talking 75 @merits, PUP and DNC are not welcome

[Karbuncle]

It's not so much a challenge as it is for me data gathering. That's the essential difference in attitude, I suppose. But yeah, that would be more relevant to today. But I'm even further behind that point, and then there's the issue with Weapon Skills... I doubt I'd go Dagger/Sword optimally. Especially if I got an Almace. Probably Almace/DA sword depending on how balancing between more frequent CDC vs higher melee dps compares. Kind of hard to when OA2-4 and DA sword are non-exclusive.



Curbing bitter words, that would result in just as hollow a victory. Whoever's further along in the gear has the best advantage. I mean, even wish was like "See, my gear isn't the best, that's an advantage to you!" and I was eyeing it going "Hmm... 3% haste advantage on gear I could have... 5 Acc on a STR ring, that would be nice." And I was only really paying attention to gear we both could have.

I mean wish mentions Mandau as the only hope for even 50%, which leads me to think the issue lies in base damage of a weapon. Which makes me wonder as to her opinion of lighter damage jobs such as PUP, DNC, and especialy THF during that time and whether or not they could reach that 80% or even the 50%, and what gear they would have for that reach.

That should probably be the better comparison points for 75.



Most the intial legwork all the way up to base Almace isn't hard. It's the competition level on Sobek that makes it frustrating as all hell. As far as 'relic' level weapon goes, that's the obvious goal to go for due to the reletive ease comapred to true Relic and Mythic weapons.

I'm still not sure I get what they're trying to prove by this. Is he trying to stick up to his parse?

I just don't see the logic is forcing someone to gear to someone elses standards and do a parse for a part of the game long dead. Im not saying you can't "Do it your way", I just don't think this is going to prove anything.

If anything it may validate his claim of what was possible at level 75 cap, But its a meaningless victory in a game at level 90. The real test should be trying to duplicate or best those results at level 90.

I just find absolutely no meaning in setting standards and purposefully mediocritizing(a made up word) your "opponent" for the sake of a parse. It should be Your best vs his Best.

You should both perform to your best standing, and let the results do the talking, even if you lose you could set a good baseline for some better geared RDM to take your place.

[Swords]

I'm still not sure I get what they're trying to prove by this. Is he trying to stick up to his parse?

I just don't see the logic is forcing someone to gear to someone elses standards and do a parse for a part of the game long dead. Im not saying you can't "Do it your way", I just don't think this is going to prove anything.

If anything it may validate his claim of what was possible at level 75 cap, But its a meaningless victory in a game at level 90. The real test should be trying to duplicate or best those results at level 90.

I just find absolutely no meaning in setting standards and purposefully mediocritizing(a made up word) your "opponent" for the sake of a parse. It should be Your best vs his Best.

You should both perform to your best standing, and let the results do the talking, even if you lose you could set a good baseline for some better geared RDM to take your place.

I'm inclined to agree with you on that point Karb, but the challenge was set at 75 by others, so it makes perfect sense to deliberate in gear that was used at that level. Albeit I think the challenge is to make the perfect excuse to rub it in his and others face's anytime the word Melee and Mage are mentioned in the same sentence. That aside, I highly doubt they would even reconsider their opinion even if he made it anywhere close to the alloted 80%.

[wish12oz]

I highly doubt they would even reconsider their opinion even if he made it anywhere close to the alloted 80%.

The whole point is that no RDM, no matter how well geared, will do anywhere near that to none-gimp DDs, if he does that I would change my opinion, but it simply won't happen. My SAM is gimp as heck, and I know I will still beat him by way more then that.

[Doombringer]

this has honestly made me curious... what would you parse against at 90? sand sweepers are probably the most common mob but you can pretty much 1-shot them with a good ws.. and anything in abyssea will have varying levels as you go..

anybody that parses on carbuncle? my rdm hasn't been parsed since the colibri days, back on gilgamesh (i actually won, but it wasn't a real test to prove anything, it was just some guy who ran parser all the time. long story short the odds were unfairly in my favor, and i admit that.)

[wish12oz]

this has honestly made me curious... what would you parse against at 90? sand sweepers are probably the most common mob but you can pretty much 1-shot them with a good ws.. and anything in abyssea will have varying levels as you go..

anybody that parses on carbuncle? my rdm hasn't been parsed since the colibri days, back on gilgamesh (i actually won, but it wasn't a real test to prove anything, it was just some guy who ran parser all the time. long story short the odds were unfairly in my favor, and i admit that.)

Dynamis IT/VT mobs are probably good. Abyssea is just no.

[Swords]

The whole point is that no RDM, no matter how well geared, will do anywhere near that to none-gimp DDs, if he does that I would change my opinion, but it simply won't happen. My SAM is gimp as heck, and I know I will still beat him by way more then that.

I wasn't naming anyone specific. While you may be willing to change your opinion if your proven wrong, we both know that there are nay-sayers no matter what evidence or proof is thrown at them. It's not just the whole RDM melee thing either, alot of concepts in this game are/were stagnated for the longest time by the same types of people until the majority of the yay-sayers vastly outweighed the nay-sayers, or until SE just flat out told us who was right and who was wrong.

Theoretically speaking, even if Hyrist won matching you or anyone else hit per hit, most probably wouldn't even glance at the data or give RDM any chance anyways.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Math is hard.

[Duelle]

While you may be willing to change your opinion if your proven wrong, we both know that there are nay-sayers no matter what evidence or proof is thrown at them.

Well, far too few have been brave enough to shatter the "mold" in front of the naysayers, urinate on it and then challenge anyone to keep their naysayer mindset. Sadly, those that have and succeeded are game developers, not players.

Theoretically speaking, even if Hyrist won matching you or anyone else hit per hit, most probably wouldn't even glance at the data or give RDM any chance anyways.

This is not because people choose to ignore evidence, but because groups stand to gain more with the RDM in support. That will continue to be the case until something major changes about the job.

The concentration should be on here and now, and the point of the matter is 'damage' isn't going to win RDM any hearts. Any hard evidence of them actually achieving that damage just comes with the arguments players like you bark any time it surfaces. So obviously the answer has to be something you can't deny or accuse your fellow DD's of sucking for: A utility.

I'll continue to disagree with you here. Utility never, ever, makes up for lacking damage. It's a nice addition and contributes as both flavor and job/class identity, but it won't make up for lacking damage.