On Red Mage melee...

[Neisan_Quetz]

EDIT: Better explained in Update thread.

[Hyrist]

saevel... there is so much wrong with that statement I don't even think I can say anything.

[saevel]

It's the honest truth. One of those quirks of I've learned to live with out here even though it goes against my "western" mindset. You never want to make your superiors look bad, or do / say something that directly contradicts them. Instead you go the round about method and make all sorts of excuse's. Instead of being "wrong" they just were "misunderstood" or that something else changed which would require that we move in a different direction. Look at the old lead guy for FFXIV, he screwed up that entire project, cost his company millions in development cost then ten's of millions in lost subscription fee's and lost sales. And instead of firing him, they simple allow him to "move on" to "greater things" and positions of more "responsibility". In actuality he'll be stuck behind a desk for the rest of his career and never given creative control of another project, ever. Not once did anyone on his staff, neither his seniors nor any of this juniors say a single negative word or put any blame on him, even though as the lead manager the success / failure is his responsibility.

That is just how things are done. RDM is screwed up, it's been screwed up since JP PS2 release before it had refresh / gravity / phalanx. Some of it's core design is flawed, and while SE has done amazing things with many other jobs, they seem reluctant to go back and change anything on RDM, even when it makes sense (Sang Blade, RLB / Seraph Blade). This speaks volumes that somehow RDM is a sore issue amongst the dev's.

[Hyrist]

That's really kind of ignoring the vastness of what RDM could do.

At 75, RDM melee was in fairly good shape, aside from a utility that would allow it's presence in the front lines to work against things harder than your normal fodder. The proof was in the parse that we were doing upwards of 80% of a dedicated damage dealer with comparable gear (meaning high end gear RDM was hitting 80% of high end gear Samurai.)

The main issues have always been on the player base side of not wanting to jump the hurtles to improve, and the Zero to Hero issue SE put in MUCH of our performance except for curing. (This includes nuking gear, set ups, etc.)

As far as 'going back and fixing stuff' back then it made sense to restrict RDM to melee subjobs to have emphasis on meleeing. Dagger was as viable for RDM as Sword so dagger usage dual weilding made more sense, and we got Evisceration for it.

But now as Sword makes itself more and more prominent, and the idea of other jobs such as DRK and WAR using 1h swords is further and further from being likely, it really does not make as much sense. Now, this can change if trends continue and the spell 'brave1' in the dats works like I think it does, and bestows Double/Tripple Attack. That would make /war the most popular (oh hai Fencer and EX Weaponskills) and paired with us being able to control Gain Dex and Gain Str choices between gear and weapon skills, it'll settle a lot of our current gear juggling problems.

You can try to excuse it on the differences in culture (which seems slightly racist, to be honest). However, I am more along the lines that they were too cautious to push RDM's performance in the front lines back when we were so popular in the back lines as a healer. So they took that away, pinned it on WHM, used our AF3 + Saboteur to pin our casting back to the buffing/debuffing roles and are now seeming to turn our attention, albeit far too slowly, back to our Melee again.

I'm still skeptical, but the dats show 2 new possible spells (one looks like a funky enspell), and 1 definite new job ability for RDM down the pipeline.

[Eeek]

Hyrist, you can't attack saevel's post by saying "there is so much wrong with that statement I don't even think I can say anything" and then immediately follow it with paragraph after paragraph of absolute nonsense like that found in the above post.

[Aurara]

That's really kind of ignoring the vastness of what RDM could do.

At 75, RDM melee was in fairly good shape, aside from a utility that would allow it's presence in the front lines to work against things harder than your normal fodder. The proof was in the parse that we were doing upwards of 80% of a dedicated damage dealer with comparable gear (meaning high end gear RDM was hitting 80% of high end gear Samurai.)

You must have played with some really terrible sams because there is no way a RDM will out dmg a sam by 80%.

The main issues have always been on the player base side of not wanting to jump the hurtles to improve, and the Zero to Hero issue SE put in MUCH of our performance except for curing. (This includes nuking gear, set ups, etc.)

lol? I'm not sure you realize that we want actual improvements on rdm, not melee crap that wont do jack for helping at events.

As far as 'going back and fixing stuff' back then it made sense to restrict RDM to melee subjobs to have emphasis on meleeing. Dagger was as viable for RDM as Sword so dagger usage dual weilding made more sense, and we got Evisceration for it.

Joytoy would like to have a word with you....

But now as Sword makes itself more and more prominent, and the idea of other jobs such as DRK and WAR using 1h swords is further and further from being likely, it really does not make as much sense. Now, this can change if trends continue and the spell 'brave1' in the dats works like I think it does, and bestows Double/Tripple Attack. That would make /war the most popular (oh hai Fencer and EX Weaponskills) and paired with us being able to control Gain Dex and Gain Str choices between gear and weapon skills, it'll settle a lot of our current gear juggling problems.

What the....? Gain DEX...Gain STR....? wouldn't help rdm dmg at all...lol....

You can try to excuse it on the differences in culture (which seems slightly racist, to be honest). However, I am more along the lines that they were too cautious to push RDM's performance in the front lines back when we were so popular in the back lines as a healer. So they took that away, pinned it on WHM, used our AF3 + Saboteur to pin our casting back to the buffing/debuffing roles and are now seeming to turn our attention, albeit far too slowly, back to our Melee again.

Culture? Saboteur was meant to make spells last longer, not for you to cast spells with it then melee with your pitiful weapons.

I'm still skeptical, but the dats show 2 new possible spells (one looks like a funky enspell), and 1 definite new job ability for RDM down the pipeline.

And neither of them will help rdm melee unless SE decides to cater to this crap, lol.

[Swords]

You must have played with some really terrible sams because there is no way a RDM will out dmg a sam by 80%.

He didn't say the RDM out DD'd the SAM, he said the RDM was able to output damage up too 80% of what the SAM had done. IE: If the SAM did 1000 damage the RDM was doing 800.

Culture? Saboteur was meant to make spells last longer, not for you to cast spells with it then melee with your pitiful weapons.

Actually, spellcasting is one of the biggest burdens to RDM, any old school RDM like myself knows your constantly casting debuffs, cures, buffs and reapplying as necessary is almost non-stop in a battle. Truthfully that's also one of the biggest blockaids to a RDM meleeing, because casting effects your overall DoT and TP gain for WS's in battle.

And neither of them will help rdm melee unless SE decides to cater to this crap, lol.

Hey it worked for SAM's when they bitched and moaned about being second tier DD's prior to all the boosts they got.

[Aurara]

Changes nothing, if a RDM is doing 80% of a SAM's dmg that SAM is crap, stop comparing yourself to crap players and find a properly geared SAM or whatever DD you're going to say a RDM can do 80% of the dmg of, lol.

[Swords]

Changes nothing, if a RDM is doing 80% of a SAM's dmg that SAM is crap, stop comparing yourself to crap players and find a properly geared SAM or whatever DD you're going to say a RDM can do 80% of the dmg of, lol.

Alright, I'll ask you this. Would you believe me, Hyrist, or anyone else if they had compared a fully decked out seasoned SAM to a well equipped seasoned RDM that still output 80% of the SAM's damage comparitively, even IF they put out screenshots, pharser results, and anything else they could think of?

[Aurara]

Alright, I'll ask you this. Would you believe me, Hyrist, or anyone else if they had compared a fully decked out seasoned SAM to a well equipped seasoned RDM that still output 80% of the SAM's damage comparitively, even IF they put out screenshots, pharser results, and anything else they could think of?

No, because that won't happen unless the sam sucks.

Edit: SAM is an actual DD, RDM is not that is why they got DD buffs and RDM did not.