On Red Mage melee...

[ManaKing]

I guess we both play RDM differently, I appreciate you not being a complete dick and claim to have "won" the conversation/debate like some people do.

LOL no one wins this debate. This debate exists so that people can share ideas. If your purpose was to brainstorm and share ideas, then that is as close to winning as you can get.

If you came here to tell people what they already know, then you are redundant at best and wasting your time at worst. I don't care if you want to try to waste my time on this forum, but I would appreciate it if you wouldn't do it in the brainstorming and theorycraft thread because it is rude to tell people what they should think.

[Aurara]

LOL no one wins this debate. This debate exists so that people can share ideas. If your purpose was to brainstorm and share ideas, then that is as close to winning as you can get.

If you came here to tell people what they already know, then you are redundant at best and wasting your time at worst. I don't care if you want to try to waste my time on this forum, but I would appreciate it if you wouldn't do it in the brainstorming and theorycraft thread because it is rude to tell people what they should think.

It appears you missed my point.
Edit: I never told anyone how to think, i just said it wasnt efficient, we have different play styles and opinions about rdm, let it go already.

[ManaKing]

It appears you missed my point.
Edit: I never told anyone how to think, i just said it wasnt efficient, we have different play styles and opinions about rdm, let it go already.

No you don't get the point. You are still worried about being right and using what is currently the state of the game as proof for why you are right.

We already know that RDM melee is inefficient and that you and several other people in this thread have given us the courtesy of allowing us to melee in situations that aren't actually important. You are redundant. We've dealt with adversity our entire career as a RDM and we would appreciate it if you would contribute something useful to furthering RDM as an attractive job past lvl 75 OR go make your own thread called "Why RDM melee is a bad idea and how RDM should actually play their job". At least if you did the later you would be posting in the right thread and all your comments thus far would actually be pertinent.

[Aurara]

No you don't get the point. You are still worried about being right and using what is currently the state of the game as proof for why you are right.

We already know that RDM melee is inefficient and that you and several other people in this thread have given us the courtesy of allowing us to melee in situations that aren't actually important. You are redundant. We've dealt with adversity our entire career as a RDM and we would appreciate it if you would contribute something useful to furthering RDM as an attractive job past lvl 75 OR go make your own thread called "Why RDM melee is a bad idea and how RDM should actually play their job". At least if you did the later you would be posting in the right thread and all your comments thus far would actually be pertinent.

You wont let it go will you? Just drop it dude, I did, lol.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Every mage job has a melee weapon for relic/mythic/emp bar Nirvana which is actually useful even if you don't melee, see lolclaustrum.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

What's with the tag for this thread: troll tagging 101?

[Aurara]

Beats me, I didn't do it, lol

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Probably the amount of times "troll" has been said in this thread.

[Hyrist]

I guess I'll close with you with this then:

It's not so much about the ability. It's about what it does and how it affects the group. That's what I was getting at with that post. If you want utility tied to the front line action, thats all and good, but it won't matter much in the numbers game if the other pieces of the puzzle aren't there. It never has and never will. Not to mention I'd find that idea much more bearable than buff cycling.

The problem is, Dulle, you're talking about a complete job Rework, and honestly, Red Mage does not need a "Delete, Reinsert" type of working with the job.

The pieces to preform are there. People who down the job's performance are exadurating the gap, even though it is large, and difficult to close.

But even if that gap was closed, you'd have the problem of it not being enough. For someone of the mentality we're being displayed. Simply having Refresh and Haste in our spell list automatically makes us duty-bound to forsake all other aspects of our class, simply to cycle those two spells endlessly. Oh, and throw out an inefficent cure sevral times in a row when needed.

Kind of funny, cause by the time 99 comes around, every single mage or melee job that subs Red Mage will be able to spread haste around. However it will stll be Red Mage's 'duty' to do so. SE would do well to just buck up and give RDM hastega and make it party only.

[Duelle]

The problem is, Duelle, you're talking about a complete job rework, and honestly, Red Mage does not need a "Delete, Reinsert" type of working with the job.

That's more a matter of opinion. Really depends on how much of a problem you have with the way RDM is currently designed. As anyone could probably guess, I've taken issue with the class' design on a fundamental level.

But even if that gap was closed, you'd have the problem of it not being enough. For someone of the mentality we're being displayed. Simply having Refresh and Haste in our spell list automatically makes us duty-bound to forsake all other aspects of our class, simply to cycle those two spells endlessly. Oh, and throw out an inefficent cure sevral times in a row when needed.

As I've said in the past, you'd need to devalue Refresh and Haste and then toss in the melee changes. Those two spells need to be removed from the equation when a RDM is front-lining. Those and cures overshadow a lot of the other parts of our class.

Kind of funny, cause by the time 99 comes around, every single mage or melee job that subs Red Mage will be able to spread haste around. However it will still be Red Mage's 'duty' to do so. SE would do well to just buck up and give RDM hastega and make it party only.

I've never been one to just put up with something that doesn't belong and go with it. Support got shoved down our throat because we were/are not up to par in the other departments. This is further aggravated by the fact you have individuals who feel we're more useful in the backlines healing and buffbotting and are justified because of the above sentence.