On Red Mage melee...

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I left tiara out because people would cry how hard it is to get.

Nothings hard in Abyssea, Weakness then kill, if you struggle to kill it brew it. lvl.75 content is harder than Abyssea still.

[Aurara]

I know this, i have a tiara, went 7/8, but my statement stands, people tend to make things harder than needed.

[Razushu]

Don't get me wrong I have nothing against WHM being able to Melee, more the fact it's better than RDM's.

I should note, I'm on about basic gear set for meleeing, I mean WHM can cap the Equipment haste cap much easier than RDM can.

I know WHM haste gear is a bit ridiculous 15% before you start trying, I think they melee better to make up the fact you can nuke(this is speculation on Dev motivations)

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I know this, i have a tiara, went 7/8, but my statement stands, people tend to make things harder than needed.

Lucky. I want that thing so bad, along with the dumb refresh hairpin.

I know WHM haste gear is a bit ridiculous 15% before you start trying, I think they melee better to make up the fact you can nuke(this is speculation on Dev motivations)

Possibly, I would like to know the Dev's plans for RDM (Well all jobs really), so I know whether to continue to level it to 99, or stop. Hopefully the Job Road-Map will show it.

[Aurara]

Lucky. I want that thing so bad, along with the dumb refresh hairpin.

I have this too, :P

[Seriha]

To be fair, I have seen a few in just mage gear meleeing.

As have I, I'm just poking fun at this glorious omniscience that speaks of all RDMs on all servers at any given moment. Meanwhile, he's just just chirp, chirp, chirping away on BG how we all have no arguments, whining that we're poking holes, ignoring things, and emitting drab stereotypes while remaining blissfully unaware or willfully ignorant of the thread's premise. As Hyrist pretty much pointed out a few posts back, if they're not even willing to contribute positively, they're not exactly a welcome presence.

Except I haven't been trolling, I'm pointing out that every one of the ideas that has been spouted out of here would break the balance of the game/overpower RDM and you guys really don't seem to get that.

Enlighten us, then. What would you do? Nothing is not an acceptable answer.

[Duelle]

Back before abyssea when RDM was the most common healer, this was not acceptable.

Of course not. The damage was and still is below par and people were too damn desperate for healers.

RDM is NOT a front-liner as you claim it to be, it is a MAGE, yes it can melee, but if you only "DD" RDM, you're playing it wrong and giving RDMs out there a terrible name.

Firstly, RDM is a melee mage.

Secondly, it's impossible to contribute what is expected of a front-liner along with the buff cycles and everything else. If Refresh procced on the whole party from an on-use Job Ability (like the one I mentioned in the Red is Obsolete thread) and haste could be AoEd and lasted 30 minutes, I might be inclined to change my opinion on the matter.

Shackling us to Refresh, Haste and Cures has done much, much more to damage the name of Red Mage than the melee enthusiasts ever have. The bandwagon jumpers loved their fact invites, but that's where it begins and ends.

Drop the previous Rdm argument first though, it isn't a RPG, it's a MMO, so it goes both ways. The battle system/casting sytem doesn't support being able to effectively do what you could in a single player as it does in the current MMO of FFXI.

That's not really necessary. Certain parts of most jobs were kept up to concept. PLD is very well design, as is WHM and BLM. The problem comes with RDM because of balance reasons, and such a situation calls for adjusting the job to still match its concept from previous FFs but with a new spin.

RDM got a new spin, but it was the wrong and possibly worst spin we could ever get from a design perspective; The magic swordsman turned into a refresh bot.

What the problem is Red Mage is the focal point of where these two genres (RPG, MMO) Clash, and it classes very hard.

This is because the original developers wanted to keep the pure generalist design, despite all signs and evidence from the past to show it didn't work and led to something unpleasant, and in the worst cases, pure bait-and-switch.

Granted, companies like Blizzard only recently opened their eyes on the matter, and guys like Trion opened their eyes because Blizzard did it first.

You ignore the fact that 99.99% of people wouldnt be able to perform the duties of a RDM and would only do "DD" RDM, wouldn't get invites because they sucked, and then would come here and cry for more broken buffs to melee rdm.

False. People will still play what they want to play and will still get brought. Just like how RDM "sucked" the entirety of abyssea as healers yet were still borught for exactly that purpose.

Not possible, in order to make rdm viable on frontlines would have to make it broken.

False. You've seen the plethora of ideas in this thread alone. That's not even going into my yet-to-be-posted redesign of the job.

So because I dont like melee rdm/disagree with it I'm not a "career" rdm?

Not one to defend Hyrist, as he and I disagree a lot on RDM, but stop putting words in his mouth.

Please, I'm not asking you to stop asking I'm asking you to be logical about what you want, and to think about the longterm effects/how it would impact the balance of the game.

What long term balance effects? The fact that some of us would start meleeing while those that like to heal and support would just keep on doing that?

Because swords are feature of RDM, and have always been. This is like saying "war's af1 weapon is an axe, WAR should ONLY use axes!" It doesn't hold water because WAR w/axes is terrible.

The sword is only a means to an end. Red Mage is a combination of thre disciplines: Destructive/Crippling Magic, Healing/Defensive Magic and Martial prowess. We've been 2/3 for too long now, and that needs to be corrected.

[Hyrist]

Goading is harder than Tiara, honestly.

Calmecac Trousers is better than ASA legs, in spite of the Acc Down.

And Sentinel's Shield Murders DW, even if you're not hitting the haste cap without it you're better off taking full advantage of DW.

Most your points are laced with the same bias that's been not only done to death, but disproven before it got accentuated post abyssea.

Some of the ideas are broken here intentionally just to joke around about the elitist mentality that will haunt any and all RDM updates.

And you're flat out lieing to yourself if you think there is such a thing as "Job Balance" in this game. Favorites of Jobs shift with pretty much every major change.

Ex: Samurai.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I have this too, :P

No fair!

Hunted that so long, saw countless Dark Rings though less than great but hey, ~30,000 and never even saw a hairpin.

[Aurara]

People would get brought, melee, be terrible at it then get kicked. I'm getting tired of trying to be coopertive, so I'm just gonna end my argument here. If you want spellblade where you can instacast spells from your weapon go right on ahead.