On Red Mage melee...

[ManaKing]

A better argument would be NMs with nasty status effects (Seps for example.) Those would be the kinds we'd avoid, and probably still have to avoid if we were to get an update.

Funny How that happens

[Karbuncle]

I don't think Subbing NIN was because of Shadows completely, its also the Dual Wield III that will massively boost your DPS when Dual Wielding

Just saying, If you can't figure that out you're the reason RDM melee gets a horrible name (outside of other things).

If you're going to Melee on RDM at least try to do it as right as possible, /NIN is a good start. Well, its the only start. No other sub job is going to make up for nearly 25% (?) Delay Reduction. If you're going to try and argue /SCH or something for utility (-Na Spells), and not using /NIN, I think you found the reason Melee RDM Suffers so much in the eyes of the community.

In order to become more effective in Melee damage, you have to give up something on your mage side (/nin or /mage)

[Aurara]

LOL REALLY?

RDM is one of the toughest jobs in the game. The only reason we aren't sitting pretty like a DNC, THF, and NIN is because we don't have decent evasion. We can't just put on some ok gear and make mobs miss 90% or their hits.

RDM isnt difficult, it's a VERY busy job, but not difficult. Here you go attacking me without a good argument because i showed how your argument was faulty.

Lol im not sure if you are aware of this, but we have phallanx, ^_^;. Just because we can give it to others doesn't mean we can't cast in on ourselves.

I'm very much aware we have phalanx, it is a very powerful spell, but it can only do so much...

When I melee I don't even bother with /NIN because Stoneskin is amazing on RDM. If you have all the gear required for it you can easily boost Stone Skin over the potency of Cure IV.

When I'm fighting actual NMs that will 1 Shot DDs. It is usually the DDs that get one shot and I'm usually the one standing. And the funny thing is, if the reason that the mob is 1 shotting someone is magic, then I'm still not going to die. Magic Defense Bonus + Barspells + Phallanx + Stoneskin + Blink. Sorry you couldn't see what was obviously there because it's not for you.

So you're saying if you were meleeing you wouldnt cure yourself? Cause max SS rdm gets is 350+30+30+20+20=450 SS, and if the spell/TP move does more, your SS is broken also, MDT does jack if the TP move is physical, and barspells dont reduce dmg, they increase your chance to resist, and if you resist your dmg is reduced, also blink isnt that reliable.

I'm also sorry that RDM have to work for their gear to be good. But we do. If you've seen more RDM that were bad. They probably had crap gear. Horribly sorry we didnt get included on any of the easy to get gear sets that we could have been included on.

See, by this you're assuming my rdm gear is poor, or that gear for rdm in general is hard to get, which it can be for some, but for the most part it isn't hard.

[Hyrist]

I don't think Subbing NIN was because of Shadows completely, its also the Dual Wield III that will massively boost your DPS when Dual Wielding

Just saying, If you can't figure that out you're the reason RDM melee gets a horrible name (outside of other things).

If you're going to Melee on RDM at least try to do it as right as possible, /NIN is a good start. Well, its the only start. No other sub job is going to make up for nearly 25% (?) Delay Reduction. If you're going to try and argue /SCH or something for utility (-Na Spells), and not using /NIN, I think you found the reason Melee RDM Suffers so much in the eyes of the community.

In order to become more effective in Melee damage, you have to give up something on your mage side (/nin or /mage)

Beleive me, you don't need to tell me about Dual Wield.

Though I tend to balance /DNC with /NIN depending on situation/composition. If no Dancer available (or I know the dancer is going to be using Fan Dance) /DNC's Haste Samba for the party vastly outweighs additional dual weild for myself. It also comes with me being able to stack up Dia III with Box Step, JA's for Dynamis procs, etc. So there's some situational value in that subjob if you're taking the front lines on RDM.

But for straight damage/defense, RDM isn't going to get better than /nin.

But it's well known among those who front line RDM consistently that a choice is made out the mog house in what role you're playing. Front Line RDM just doesn't play the same way.

As far as avoiding Seps, it depends on the situation. All that's needed is one outside healer, and a RDM going /dnc can be the one to wake his party without the healer wasting a curega.

[Hyrist]

Aurara, your argument is jumping all over the place, and half of it isn't even valid. Settle down and read for a while before you reply.

1. RDM in front lines, likely /nin. Utsu > Blink.

2. RDM has PDT gear, period. You can fit it in if you know where to swap.

3. Resist chances when under the appropriate Barspells skyrocket, Shell is flat damage reduction, we have native Magical Defense Bonus, Addle helps resists for everyone including ourselves.

4. 350 Damage absorbed is 350 Damage prevented. It most defiantly can mean the difference between survival and death regardless of gear. Typically, you're not going to have to worry about massive re-uses of the same TP move unless you're talking NMs, which is an entirely different catagory of argument.


More and more, people who abundantly come here to argue against RDM melee show up with the wrong presumptions. As I've said before, it's gotten to the point where it's almost not worth addressing, because we wind up repeating ourselves.

[ManaKing]

@Aurara

Tough = having good defense, not being difficult to play.

With a decent PDT set we are almost impossible to 1 shot. The only thing that is harder to 1 Shot is a PLD. And im not saying we are supposed to tank. I'm just saying that any kind of TP move we are supposed to be worried about is AOE. Put up Stone skin, watch other members of your alliance drop like flies.

The amount of effort a RDM has to put in to acquire good gear past 75, WHICH IS WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IN THIS THREAD, is several times hard than most jobs. We get teal. Teal is great for a caster. It is garbage for a melee. AF3 is garbage to melee in as well. Almost nothing in our AF3 addresses our melee.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

not being difficult to play.

No job is difficult to play.

[Aurara]

Except you are not a melee DD, you will NEVER toutch a melee DD's dmg. Here, let me put together a haste set for you:
Almace/Sent shield/aureole
Zelus/PCC/Brutal/Suppa
Goliard/Dusk Gloves/Rajas/Acc
Cuch/Goading belt/3% haste/7 acc ASA legs/Dusk
RDM/WAR, spamming CDC

This will not out dmg a:
Ukon war, kannagi nin vereth mnk almace pld, twashtar thf or dng gandiva rng, armageddon corsair, or most other emp DDs.

You WILL NOT contribute dmg, in fact you will be detrimental to the party, as you are neglecting your RDM duties to melee, and feed a mob stupid amounts of TP that are just not needed.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

If you are only here to tell people they're wrong then you could just not bother posting.

RDM'S KNOW THEY ARE NOT DD's THIS IS THE POINT OF THE THREAD - THEY ARE NOT SAYING THEY CAN, THEY ARE ASKING TO BE ABLE TO DD IN SOME FORM TO DO PART OF WHAT WAS ADVERTISED OF RDM AND IS STILL ADVERTISED OF RDM EVEN TO THIS DAY.

Get it?
Got it?
I severely doubt it.

Thank you and good day!

[Aurara]

You don't get it do you? I'm not saying "OMG MELEE RDM IS TERRIBLE NEVER DO IT" I'm saying do it when things don't matter, like messing with friends in an xp alliance, or farming lights/time. It's useless on big NMs when you're doing nothing more than feeding extra TP that the pt doesnt need to deal with.