On Red Mage melee...

[ManaKing]

I'd still like to see a null-elemental WS that changes its element and skillchain properties based on your current enspell. Ideally it should do more than Sanguine Blade since it wouldn't have the curative property attached and it would allow us to adapt the element to the mob in question since, unlike SB, you wouldn't be stuck with a shitty darkness WS on darkness resistant mobs. We could then do an atma build like RR/Beyond/MM and still be generally proficient with an ice WS that could ideally break 2500 with an okay gear set. No, it's not Ukko's or Smite, but I don't think 40% or more of a scrub mob's HP is anything to scoff at. Plus it'd be amber over ruby, since people still have their ruby phobia.

Doing 2k+ with Evisceration isn't hard right now, but i do like the idea of an Enspell dependent WS. It could be disastrous, or maybe we would get some job identity out of it.

Couple problems I see with that idea:


2. Magic WSes, I don't belive, are subject to DA/TA, Crit, etc. Chances that help other classes push incredibly high spikes.

3. Resists. Without an appropriate skillset to use as a base accuracy comparison on elemental WSes, they tend to suck in general. Sure, with Atmas we could push those numbers high enough to be decent in Abyssea. But outside ,we're just going to lose out on the same root problems we have with WSes before.

Now granted, Elemental WSes would save us a bunch on gear swaps, as we could simply use our casting/Nuking gear to WS. But unless the tripping points are addressed, it'd wind up being a half-effort WS that's not all that much better than Sanguine Blade outside Abyssea, which isn't that impressive at all.

2. You can't get SA/TA, but you do get MAB applied to good elemental WSs.

3. Elemetal WSs almost never miss, but they do get resisted.

(because if i recall, Inside Abyssea Wildfire is only"good" when you stack MAB/FireMab Atmas, if a RDM did this, they'd severely nerf their Melee-TP Damage phase, Which is not a good trade off. If you're going to advocate RDM melee in abyssea, at least do it right and put on the DD Atmas, any combo of VV, RR, GH, Omni and Apoc. Stacking MAB atmas just for your WS, on a job that would be meleeing for TP, would not be a great idea.)

What if your enspell damage was affected by your MAB?

If you knew what mobs you were hunting, you could use elemental MAB ATMAs to boost your enspell damage (DPS) and your WS damage (Burst).

You get to melee and you get to do it like a Mage instead of like a THF. So you equip Mage Atmas and get to Melee with them too.

I personally want this to be the direction that RDM goes. Your magic makes up the difference in melee combat, not your brute strength or your lack of weapon proficiency. You still aren't going to out DPS a DD or out Burst a BLM, but you might get close enough that people would take you seriously.

[Hyrist]

Sorry, let me clarify. I mean Double-Attack, Tripple Attack. Which would really be a good boon to attack boosts.

As far as "never miss" some of the levels of resist we get might as well make the things miss.

It's just too much that could mess up.

[Karbuncle]

What if your enspell damage was affected by your MAB?

If you knew what mobs you were hunting, you could use elemental MAB ATMAs to boost your enspell damage (DPS) and your WS damage (Burst).

You get to melee and you get to do it like a Mage instead of like a THF. So you equip Mage Atmas and get to Melee with them too.

I personally want this to be the direction that RDM goes. Your magic makes up the difference in melee combat, not your brute strength or your lack of weapon proficiency. You still aren't going to out DPS a DD or out Burst a BLM, but you might get close enough that people would take you seriously.

Sorry for the late reply, But even if Enspell damage was effected by MAB, stacking MAB would not make up for lose of general DPS from an Atma combo like, RR/GH/Apoc. Not only would a heavy MAB make you lose nearly 70% Critical hit Rate, 30% Critical hit Damage, and 15% Triple Attack, It would only effect your enspells slightly.

Even if say, Your enspells did 50 dmg a hit. +30MAB would add i think just 15 more Damage, +30IceMAB would add about the same. +50MAB would add like 25 damage to that (Ultimate). So if anything, with 50dmg Enspells, and Full Magic Atmas, Your enspell damage would be hitting about 105 dmg.

Right now no enspells for RDM hit 50 (I think maybe Teir IIs but they just suck to the point of not worth using). an additional 105 a hit would not make up for the lose of Critical hit Rate, Damage, and Triple Attack.

Basically, what i was trying to say in that post is, If you're going to try and melee on RDM, Dont half ass it. You can't expect to full up on Mage atmas and not get people going "you're doing gimp dmg wtf are you doing". You need to actually be a Melee RDM if you're going to try and Be. RR/GH/Apoc and pump the Eviscerations/Chants/Vorps.

While, MAB Effecting Enspells would give them a boost, It would simply not make up for the lose of using real DD Atmas. Unfortunately if you wanted to be Magey after Meleeing you'd want to consider switching Atmas :P do both to their fullest.

(I wont speak for Outside Abyssea)

Edit: And as far as "Gearing" for MAB if enspells got that boost, I dont think that would be wise. You'd lose out on a lot of Melee Stats. Even just using Earrings for MAB, You lose out on Suppa and Brutal, If you just use Cape for MAB you lose out on Atheling, Belt is obvious, and Main slots offer too much haste to be worth replacing.

One of my suggestions a few pages back was giving a JA that while active, amongst other things, gives Enspells effected by MAB, But it was more a bonus that can take advantage of RDms natural job Traits.

Edit2: Again on the Topic of Elemental WSs. Outside Abyssea this will likely be a better choice if it was strong enough, Inside We'd be better off with Chant, Vorp, or Evisc. Unless it was insanely powerful to the point it was wildfire level. but we can't expect that.

Also, when it comes to haste, SE is picky in giving it to people in form of JA haste, I can't expect a job Trait that gives us basically capped Gear haste instantly. Its asking a little too much :X

It would be nice but slightly unrealistic

[Hyrist]

Couple problems I see with that idea:

1. We'd never get beyond the level 1 skillchain properties unless we started gaining "Enfusion, Engravitation, Endistortion, etc." as new enspells. Which, admittedly, would be awesome. I'd love to have these instead of a simple tier 3. Otherwise though, the skillchain property variant on the WS would pretty much be worthless. (Unless we got Chainbind as a debuff, which would be a nice way to push a damage boost and allow us to follow up with a burst.)

2. Magic WSes, I don't belive, are subject to DA/TA, Crit, etc. Chances that help other classes push incredibly high spikes.

3. Resists. Without an appropriate skillset to use as a base accuracy comparison on elemental WSes, they tend to suck in general. Sure, with Atmas we could push those numbers high enough to be decent in Abyssea. But outside ,we're just going to lose out on the same root problems we have with WSes before.

Now granted, Elemental WSes would save us a bunch on gear swaps, as we could simply use our casting/Nuking gear to WS. But unless the tripping points are addressed, it'd wind up being a half-effort WS that's not all that much better than Sanguine Blade outside Abyssea, which isn't that impressive at all.

[Supersun]

not all that much better than Sanguine Blade outside Abyssea, which isn't that impressive at all.

O.o...

Are you gearing for it correctly?

(I'll respond in more detail later)

[Supersun]

(I would break the hell out of that WS, making Wildfire look like a joke)

[Hyrist]

Personally I find the likelihood of us getting a second Weapon Skill custom tailored to our job is low, or highly distant. It would also likely be restricted to high level, which would not regard some of the concerns of some players stating we need a stronger early game WS presence.

Honestly to regard that issue I would like to see the Ex restrictions removed, entirely. The older style job specific WSes don't make any sense to remain restricted in today's game.

In the end our physical WS game isn't all that bad (aside from our Atk deficiency) We just don't have any access to the good ones natively. We either need a specific weapon (with CDC) or a specific subjob, to unlock any ones that have impact. And that seems rather odd considering our nuking game is still decent regardless of subjob. I don't understand why we're still restricted to quested/equipped WSes for decent damage or have a strict subjob choice if we want good WSes. Having them is not going to make us dominate.

[ManaKing]

Sorry, let me clarify. I mean Double-Attack, Tripple Attack. Which would really be a good boon to attack boosts.

As far as "never miss" some of the levels of resist we get might as well make the things miss.

It's just too much that could mess up.

I don't disagree with this and yes, elemental WS are very much about gear.

BUT I wouldn't be against it if gearing for magic affects our future enspell damage.

If you are using this correctly, you should be using an element that the mobs are weak to. So long as the base damage is high, everything should be fine. It won't matter if you get occasional resists because you would be wearing mage gear.

We would be able to use this in our AF3 and actually be taken seriously. Make the bonus stats INT and MND.

GOD I WANT TO MELEE IN MY AF3 SO BADLY!!!!


ALSO can we get an enfeeble that lowers magical evasion?

[Hyrist]

I would be against it.

There's nothing in the magical stats that enhances our physical traits. Mag.Atk. Bonus vs haste, accuracy, etc? The melee stats are going to win every time. Only way I'd conceed to that is if it comes accompanied with a LARGE wash of gear that mixes melee stats and magic stats, and that's highly unlikely, and even if they did, Enspell Damage + would be a far greater asset.

[ManaKing]

Composure gives +ACC and there is plenty of +ACC gear.

Giving us a way to gear for a good elemental WS and improved enspell damage at the same time is a step towards not having to compete with melee stats. They can have their game of physical stats + Haste and we can have our game of magical stats.

The end result is more Enspell damage. I want Enspell damage to go up, as well.

Look at our AF3. It stresses Mage skills as usual. So why not work with what we have already and get what we actually want? You can't have sword and sorcery without the sorcery.

*Adding a new idea*