On Red Mage melee...

[Supersun]

(Rdm actually used to have a Marksmanship skill)

[Hyrist]

We both agree that ALL Enspells should be calculated off Enhancing magic at the time of cast.

BUT you're probably only thinking of /NIN or /DNC. If you want to use Sambas and Enspells you are probably NIN or DNC already. You have an off hand. Use It. Your problem is already addressed and solved.

I don't disagree with the idea of uncapping the damage on Enspells either. But I would much rather it function on multihits instead.

If you make it so Multi Hit weapons and Double/Tripple/Quadruple attacks play nice with RDM then we will start to have the damage we need, and not just for NIN and DNC. If you want to make sure it doesn't get out of hand, then you make it so that every attack from that round of combat is the same and you only increase the damage by 1, per round of attacks.

A Joyeus is golden again, the Twilight dagger becomes highly desirable, our 2-4 Khanda becomes a very attractive main hand choice, /WAR becomes a legitimate sub, and the Kracken Club is still what every new player in the game dreams about at night.

I staunchy disagree.

An uncapped scaling enspell that works with multihits would be flatly broken. There is a reason why most modern NMs resist Krakkeneater Dark Knights. It's a very broken mechanic. The reason why I had it be a first-hit retain itself in my idea to uncap Enspell II's damage scaling wasn't just so it would continue to syngergize with Sambas in any multi-attack build. It was to keep the damage scaling on such an enspell from growing to insane proportions. A well geared RDM with an uncapped Enspell II is going to do well into 200+ additional damage per round, which in and of itself would make up for attack deficiency in our TP gain. But with proper buffing this can even offset our low WS numbers as well. Making it function on every hit would just plain break the game, even I'm considering that they give a diminishing return in growth after +200 AD.

The fact that it could be paired with Ceremonial blade to make for more TP-less melee solos again is going to make this idea near impossible to begin with in SE's eyes.

[ManaKing]

uncapped scaling enspell that works on mult hits, NO. Take off uncapped. Leave the rest. That's what I said. I didn't say out of control ridiculous damage. I said Enspell 2s that are about twice as good as Enspell 1s. You know, the way they should be instead of enspell 1s being just blatantly better as soon as you start considering maxing DPS and good gear.

Again, you're not seeing the difference between breaking TP off a mob and draining it from them. DRK's Absorb-TP is well placed because it fits the theme of the class. RDM is warranted to have Froissement to have a different approach to reducing the mob's TP. It isn't complicated nor difficult to see this.

I'm not seeing it because you aren't saying it or relating it to precedent that already exists on RDM. Why should a RDM break mobs TP? Tell me what that is related to. I'm not trying to be difficult i'm just wondering where this idea is coming from and if you could fully flesh it out so that myself and others can comment on it.

Then simply make said enspell trait renew enfeebling duration. It'd still make melee relevant. The idea is to tie enfeebling into melee rather than making it its own role. Granted, it's not my idea but I do like it.

Same thing is this some kind of melee saboteur that lengthens enfeebles or does it increase potency or anything else notable? Is it a spell or trait that we learn. Is it going to be obvious to people that just picked up the game what their spells are doing? What are the parameters of this idea and how does it function?

[Duelle]

I'm not seeing it because you aren't saying it or relating it to precedent that already exists on RDM. Why should a RDM break mobs TP? Tell me what that is related to.

You mean side from being plausibly part of the fencer side of RDM that so far has been terribly neglected, and the fact that enfeebling doesn't end with status ailments. It even falls into line with that wish to have more JAs native to RDM. As I would balance it, it'd be on a 1-minute cooldown like my Spellblade idea, but dealing minimal damage (weapon damage/5 maybe?) since the point of the ability is to lower the mob's TP.

Same thing is this some kind of melee saboteur that lengthens enfeebles or does it increase potency or anything else notable? Is it a spell or trait that we learn. Is it going to be obvious to people that just picked up the game what their spells are doing? What are the parameters of this idea and how does it function?

Not my idea, but as I would do it it'd be a job trait that enters the game at 55, extending the duration of enfeebles already cast by the RDM on the target whenever the RDM hits the mob while under the effect of Enspells. I'd personally want to just take the old Crusader Strike approach and have it renew the entire enfeeble duration every time the RDM hits the mob, but keeping the balance mongers in mind, I'd say limit it to double the normal duration of the enfeeble in a stacking fashion. It'd be easier to work with if we could see debuff timers on mobs, but sadly that is not the case at the moment, which is why I lean more towards the former rather than the latter.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

(Rdm actually used to have a Marksmanship skill)

Then they changed it to bow, I'd have preferred being able to equip a crossbow, and potentially a gun.

[Doombringer]

i think linking enspells to enfeebs needs to be more along the lines of the enspell INFLICTING the enfeeb, as opposed to just re-applying it.

if the issue is time spent casting relative to time spent with mob alive, then just making enspell re-up enfeebs already on the mob won't matter much.

also, it should probably be it's own spell, or line of spells, to avoid things like "well it's firesday.. and this mob is weak to fire.. and it's fire weather right now.. so.. guess i'll use enblizzard" (since an en-paralyze effect would be way better than en-addle)

i don't think it would be ENOUGH... but it'd be something. a couple pages ago we talked about cripple, then pain, then en-pain. i think we hit something useful there.

[Seriha]

If we're gonna talk about the T2's scaling and caps, just make it, at most, the damage rating of the weapon. And frankly, I'd like to see RDM removed from the ceremonial dagger just so people stop bringing that up as some vile solo mechanic.

[ManaKing]

Then they changed it to bow, I'd have preferred being able to equip a crossbow, and potentially a gun.

Yeah, me too.

i think linking enspells to enfeebs needs to be more along the lines of the enspell INFLICTING the enfeeb, as opposed to just re-applying it.

if the issue is time spent casting relative to time spent with mob alive, then just making enspell re-up enfeebs already on the mob won't matter much.

also, it should probably be it's own spell, or line of spells, to avoid things like "well it's firesday.. and this mob is weak to fire.. and it's fire weather right now.. so.. guess i'll use enblizzard" (since an en-paralyze effect would be way better than en-addle)

i don't think it would be ENOUGH... but it'd be something. a couple pages ago we talked about cripple, then pain, then en-pain. i think we hit something useful there.

Do me a favor and write up what you envision this to be, so we can discuss it better. Don't take a bunch of time to do it.

1. Is it a spell, trait, or JA?
2. What it's name is? (less important)
3. Recast timer/ frequency of use (if it has one)
4. What you can do with it, min/maxing included
5. What you feel the ability will accomplish for RDM and the direction it will take the Job, including precedent from previous RDM spells and abilities
6. How it interacts with other Jobs, specifically are you stepping on other people's toes? and will it be desirable for other jobs to play with it.

I'll do one on Runic for example and also because I want it discussed. Try to keep these short, but well defined, so they are easy to read.

Criticism welcome, if i missed anything you think is important for defining new changes, please comment.



Write up on Runic:
Job Ability _ Runic _ Recast timer between 2 - 5 minutes.

The next damaging, offensive spell cast in 30 yalms of the RDM is absorbed by their weapon. The next melee attack will apply the spell as an additional affect. The damage is at full potency from the caster + any additional magic attack bonus that the RDM has.

This would only work on magic schools that the RDM has natively. No Blue Magic. No monster abilities. No Ninjitsu. No Summoning magic, unless it is a spell that is Elemental Magic, such as Fire IV from Ifrit. The spells source can either be a member of your alliance (pets included) or an enemy that your alliance is engaging.

The JA doesn't go on cooldown until the spell is dissipated by using it or canceling the buff. That way you can't use Runic back to back.


The idea is a combination of Chrono Trigger mechanics and Celes' Runic from FF6. I see Runic as a different application of Convert. Taking one thing and channeling it into another.

It would make RDM into a spell catalyst for higher tier nukers. We would be able to take another casters Nukes and deliver them to the Mob without the casters gaining hate. Instead we would get the hate. We would also get more use out of magic attack bonus gear, because it would help us further enhance the damage of the spells.

We would also be very effective again caster type mobs, so we would have a niche. I personally love the idea of a RDM being the last thing another mage wants to take on 1 V 1, because we are Duelists and Warlocks. We cheat, we bend the rules, and we aren't afraid to get our hands dirty to win. We will even take your own magic, and turn it against you.

I think other mages would love a hate free delivery system for their Higher Tier magic. I designed the idea around more teamwork for RDM and giving it a desirable position in a party.

[Duelle]

i think linking enspells to enfeebs needs to be more along the lines of the enspell INFLICTING the enfeeb, as opposed to just re-applying it.

if the issue is time spent casting relative to time spent with mob alive, then just making enspell re-up enfeebs already on the mob won't matter much.

also, it should probably be it's own spell, or line of spells, to avoid things like "well it's firesday.. and this mob is weak to fire.. and it's fire weather right now.. so.. guess i'll use enblizzard" (since an en-paralyze effect would be way better than en-addle)

And you lose out on the damage from enspells. That's kind of why I think it would be a trait that works in conjunction with current enspells.

[Doombringer]

eh, make it do dmg to then. random element, non-elemental, whatever.

if that makes existing enspells obsolete... so what? i've been using the same enspells since lvl 15. they can be replaced at 90+