On Red Mage melee...

[Hyrist]

I agree. Our Native Dark Magic skill isn't really up to snuff in most situations to allow for Absorb Spells to be used reliably on anything but fodder, and if you're fighting fodder, you're essentially able to Sub WAR/NIN/BLU to greater effect.

[Duelle]

Hate to dog on you but you just described COR and DRK. Both are really fun to play when you think of them like a RDM.

Not sure I'm following you on that one.

The goal is to make melee relevant. The suggestion is tying it to enfeebling, which I am fine with. If you mean the renewal of debuffs, it'd actually make front-lining beneficial, which matches the goal. Froissement is actually a fencing term, which describes an attack that displaces the opponent's blade using a heavy grazing action. Thus knocking them off rhythm. Changement de Rythme would actually be a better name for the attack, but its too long. >.>;

As a DRK main, I'll also tell you I can tell the difference between absorbing TP from a mob and outright breaking the mob's TP. The latter happens to fit the enfeebling thing, if a little more directly than the other things RDM has in its list.

[Akujima]

I support this thread 100%

I've been playing RDM Melee, and I can tell you that it's definitely one thing above all else: fun.

RDM seriously needs Fencer and a higher shield skill. Also more equipment that focuses on hybrid melee/caster roles. Tier 2 En~Spells need a fixing so they can proc on double attack and dual wield.

[Hyrist]

Actually, on the subject of Enspell II line, I dissagree with Akujima.

Enspell II line needs to function like Enspell one's in that it has its magical accuracy and damage determined at time of cast. However I would prefer it remain first hit only so those who dual weild and use multi attack weapons can still gain the effects of Sambas as a benefit.

As a trade off, however, remove the cap on Enspell II's damage climb.

That's right, remove it entirely. It would still be balanced off by the fact that it sitll would not compare to a double/tripple attack build with Enspell I's. But at least this way it would be worth casting and maintaining.

[Supersun]

Hmm interesting idea.

It's essentially the opposite of Enlight an Endark where they start high and go low, but instead they start low and go high.

Only issue I really see is that they would have to be very careful with gear that enhances buff duration in the future since obviously the balancing factor of a spell like this is the duration of it. Needless to say if the buff lasted something like 2 hours the spell would be broken since in that time we could build the spell to do like WS like damage per melee attack.

[Hyrist]

We could probably math up what our max damage per hit would be.

Composure Enspell II line lasts 9 minutes

With Cape and boots: 702 seconds (Roughly 11.7 minutes)

So all you got to figure is how many attacks you can get in attacking for 702 seconds and add that to your base enspell damage.

Just a rough estimate. Joyeuse, before haste, constantly hitting, would roughly build up to (Base) + 188 by the time it expires at the end of 702 seconds.

*glee*

[ManaKing]

Drk certainly has a time and a place.

Sometimes being able to melee and stun is just that valuable.

I will say though that I would use /Drk a lot more if our Dark Skill wasn't so trashy. For most things it's really hard to justify an Abs spell with only a D in dark magic

It's an E in Dark Magic, but please don't call it trashy without trying it. I have almost no problems landing Absorbs with nothing but merited Dark Magic and a Dark Torque. There is about 50 more Dark Magic I could get from equips and I plan on getting as much as I can. Your Drain and Aspir are not good, but all of you absorbs and stuns aren't hard to land with capped Dark Magic.

I would love a higher Dark Magic Skill, but that is not a pressing issue.

That's really a problem with shields as a whole.

Yeah agreed.

Actually, on the subject of Enspell II line, I dissagree with Akujima.

Enspell II line needs to function like Enspell one's in that it has its magical accuracy and damage determined at time of cast. However I would prefer it remain first hit only so those who dual weild and use multi attack weapons can still gain the effects of Sambas as a benefit.

We both agree that ALL Enspells should be calculated off Enhancing magic at the time of cast.

BUT you're probably only thinking of /NIN or /DNC. If you want to use Sambas and Enspells you are probably NIN or DNC already. You have an off hand. Use It. Your problem is already addressed and solved.

I don't disagree with the idea of uncapping the damage on Enspells either. But I would much rather it function on multihits instead.

If you make it so Multi Hit weapons and Double/Tripple/Quadruple attacks play nice with RDM then we will start to have the damage we need, and not just for NIN and DNC. If you want to make sure it doesn't get out of hand, then you make it so that every attack from that round of combat is the same and you only increase the damage by 1, per round of attacks.

A Joyeus is golden again, the Twilight dagger becomes highly desirable, our 2-4 Khanda becomes a very attractive main hand choice, /WAR becomes a legitimate sub, and the Kracken Club is still what every new player in the game dreams about at night.

I would like to see Fencer on RDM and I would like to see Shield Mastery used as well. I'm not trying to take anything away from dual wields, you can still get multi hit weapons in your main hand and better damage than either of us have right now. You can keep your sambas and your additional on hit effects as well. I'll keep my Shield and my Magic, because it is my choice and preference to do so.

Hmm interesting idea.

It's essentially the opposite of Enlight an Endark where they start high and go low, but instead they start low and go high.

Only issue I really see is that they would have to be very careful with gear that enhances buff duration in the future since obviously the balancing factor of a spell like this is the duration of it. Needless to say if the buff lasted something like 2 hours the spell would be broken since in that time we could build the spell to do like WS like damage per melee attack.

Dear GOD a RDM that could actually Melee in their AF3? How dare their AF3 push their job into overdrive like every other jobs AF3 does, FOR SHAME!!!

/end sarcasm

Yeah I'm a jerk. I'm just saying look at every other AF3 in the game, and then look at ours. Everyone else is going bat-shit crazy and we are still just kinda luke warm.

Not sure I'm following you on that one.

The goal is to make melee relevant. The suggestion is tying it to enfeebling, which I am fine with. If you mean the renewal of debuffs, it'd actually make front-lining beneficial, which matches the goal. Froissement is actually a fencing term, which describes an attack that displaces the opponent's blade using a heavy grazing action. Thus knocking them off rhythm. Changement de Rythme would actually be a better name for the attack, but its too long. >.>;

As a DRK main, I'll also tell you I can tell the difference between absorbing TP from a mob and outright breaking the mob's TP. The latter happens to fit the enfeebling thing, if a little more directly than the other things RDM has in its list.

If we are talking about a spell that basically puts a negative STORE TP status on them, then fine. I would love to add that to my enfeebles.

We can already reduce the amount of TP a mob has by /DRK.

If you are saying we should drain TP on hit with every enspell, well IDK. I would want to talk about it more.


As far as enhancing debuffs, COR already does that. I play my COR with my RDM best friend. We make a really good team and she doesn't like to melee her RDM. So just just Debuff things to hell and back.

I want RDM/COR to be viable, so that you can enhance your enfeebles by shooting mobs in the face. I would much rather that kind of change to what RDM can do than adding more complications to RDM. You would be jack of all trades as usual and could use 1 full strength COR roll while you are at it if you wanted to be a backline enfeebling RDM. Just give us a C in marksmanship and we would already have some of the gear for it.

[Doombringer]

well.. you wouldn't melee in the af3 anyway, you'd just swap it in to cast, then right back out.

also the set bonus on rdm af3 doesn't increase composures duration buff, it extends it to other players we cast on.

so really it's just the cape and boots you gotta worry about.

[ManaKing]

Exactly. The point is still the same, we would actually get something out of our AF3.

[Duelle]

If we are talking about a spell that basically puts a negative STORE TP status on them, then fine. I would love to add that to my enfeebles.

We can already reduce the amount of TP a mob has by /DRK.

Again, you're not seeing the difference between breaking TP off a mob and draining it from them. DRK's Absorb-TP is well placed because it fits the theme of the class. RDM is warranted to have Froissement to have a different approach to reducing the mob's TP. It isn't complicated nor difficult to see this.

If you are saying we should drain TP on hit with every enspell, well IDK. I would want to talk about it more.

I never said that, nor would I want to see that implemented.

As far as enhancing debuffs, COR already does that. I play my COR with my RDM best friend. We make a really good team and she doesn't like to melee her RDM. So just just Debuff things to hell and back.

Then simply make said enspell trait renew enfeebling duration. It'd still make melee relevant. The idea is to tie enfeebling into melee rather than making it its own role. Granted, it's not my idea but I do like it.