On Red Mage melee...

[SnapperTrx]

That's all semantics. It doesn't particularly matter if some names share a similar theme or not.

That said, I don't see any benefit in giving RDM fencer when they are best off subbing NIN and dualwielding if they want to Melee at all.

Point taken. Of course, I forget that there are a few weapon skills that I dont yet have, that would benefit greatly from dual wielding. Though I stand on point 1, I wish to retract points 2 and 3. I keep forgetting that I dont have any of the great weapon skills (Chant du Cygne, Death blossom).

[Supersun]

I can think of a few uses for a native fencer trait.

[Carth]

As a RDM who doesn't whore himself to /NIN wherever he goes, a native fencer trait is welcomed.

[Duelle]

As a RDM who doesn't whore himself to /NIN wherever he goes, a native fencer trait is welcomed.

/DNC has its uses. Also, doesn't /WAR and /BLU lose in overall DPS versus Dual Wield?

[Greatguardian]

/DNC has its uses. Also, doesn't /WAR and /BLU lose in overall DPS versus Dual Wield?

They do, by a landslide. Why would using Nin sub be considered "Whoring"? It's far and away the strongest melee sub RDM has.

[Supersun]

If Rdm had native fencer it would give them a viable way to melee when being forced to use a non DW sub, ESPECIALLY Sch.

With fencer I could see meleeing with /sch pretty powerful for a mage sub and still give you the ability to nuke and support very effectively.

This goes double if jobs ever get to the point where they learn the empyrean WS natively like Mythic WSs where then subbing /war and using CDC with an OaX sword becomes very powerful.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

That's all semantics. It doesn't particularly matter if some names share a similar theme or not.

That said, I don't see any benefit in giving RDM fencer when they are best off subbing NIN and dualwielding if they want to Melee at all.

Semantics or not it's still absurd that what was supposed to be a fencer/duelist has such rubbish parrying and doesn't even gain the trait of the same name.

[Carth]

They do, by a landslide. Why would using Nin sub be considered "Whoring"? It's far and away the strongest melee sub RDM has.

Because sometimes, I'm not just there to be a DD.

I duo -very- frequently with my best friend who is a SAM as well as a BLU. He is very much a glass cannon on SAM, while at the same time he tries to do as much damage as possible on his BLU. In these circumstances, I am the healer, tank, and DD, and after various experimentation with /NIN I learned there are many benefits from other subjobs when the situation calls for it. My go-to subjob is actually /PLD due to Shield Mastery (pre-update), Auto-Refresh, and the very strong hate tools. Sentinel has also saved my tushie many times. I go /BLU for supertank methods. /WAR and /DRK are used when the plan is to zerg a mob down and I have a very strong Sanguine Blade build for that. Did I mention Sanguine Blade is -fucking awesome- for tanking?

My /NIN build also isn't all that strong, admittedly. I'm still working on getting Khanda and Almace, and I don't have Death Blossom yet. If I did I probably would be using /NIN more. It's mainly the lack of Death Blossom that keeps me away from it.

[Seriha]

The whole Fencer thing leads to old thoughts on how shields could better improve offense. Some think the answer lies in just throwing out shields with good stats. Not unreasonable, but inevitably we'd cookie cutter into "the best" for most given situations. On the other hand, I actually think Shield Mastery should be further expanded in some manner. It could be as simple as randomly covering people behind you with a shield block or just simply having the shield on could grant something like -delay or an insane amount of STP that both RDMs and PLDs could benefit from in the long run.

I think I called it "En Garde" or whatever, but a more specialized dual-wield limited to sword main-hand with dagger off-hand allowing access to both WS at once would be rather nice even if, at best, the -delay matched DW2. We could then sub the EX WS jobs for sword for their varying degrees of utility and getting a mix of the best of both worlds.

[AyinDygra]

This is my take on how to make Red Mage desirable on the front lines. Some of my ideas are very similar to those I've seen proposed by others, and no idea is intended as a single fix to the issue. Taken as a group, I think the combination of traits, abilities and spells would open up new possibilities.

I added vague math-y details and durations and recasts and MP costs, etc, just trying to put forward the ideas. And before anyone goes saying Rdm would be overpowered; Getting all of my suggestions at one time, without other jobs getting updates would certainly be overpowering, but we're all going up to 99 (and merits beyond) together, so there's room to grow.

I'd also like to echo the suggestions to add merited spells to the normal list learned from scrolls, and have the merits adjust those spells in some way. As well as changing En-spells II to not check enhancing skill on each strike. And the change to Accession to work with Haste and Refresh II at least.

I liked Duelle's idea of "Escrime" for the Sword main + dagger offhand trait + sword/dagger ws's.


On to the ideas!

Existing abilities given to Red Mage:
Add Sanguine Blade to Rdm's native weaponskill list.
Add Job Trait: Occult Acumen, tiers gained at the same levels as Dark Knight, or earlier.
Do NOT add Job Trait "Fencer" (read next idea)

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Job Trait: Magic Fencer
While an En-spell is active, increases En-spell damage and the Rdm's Elemental Affinity with the currently active En-spell.
Tiers: (cumulative trait results, not additive)
20 (Base En-spell Damage+2, Elemental Affinity+2%)
40 (Base En-spell Damage+4, Elemental Affinity+4%)
60 (Base En-spell Damage+6, Elemental Affinity+6%)
80 (Base En-spell Damage+8, Elemental Affinity+8%)
99 (Base En-spell Damage+10, Elemental Affinity+10%)
(Edit: removed CritRate+2-10%, replaced with Elemental Affinity, Supersun's suggestion)

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Adjust En-spells II
Calculate damage based on the initial cast, not on-hit. That alone would probably be enough to make them great.

Edit: Removed my proposed "status-hit" addition to the En-spell 2's, replaced by a change to calculating of damage based on the initial casting, not on-hit.

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En-spells III
Make En-Spell III's that cause En-spell 1 range of "additional damage" and replace critical hits with the free, near-instant cast of the related tier 2 elemental spell. (Combined with the "Magic Fencer" trait, this could be signifigant)

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Job Ability: Tactical Casting
Level 25 Red Mage
Duration: 5min Recast: 5min
In this mode, spells cost TP instead of MP.
* Cannot cast spells for MP while this is in effect.
* MP cost for any spell is capped at 100TP.
* Can be canceled at any time.

Too much like Dancer? I really don't think so, and I really don't think it would be that bad anyway. (We have many different melee and mages performing the same roles in similar ways already.)

Red Mages could still fulfill their casting duties and as long as they're engaged with the enemy they'll have unlimited MP without resting or the danger of converting to restore MP.

Use of this Job Ability would also allow "Convert" to be used to fulfill its inverse function: restoring HP on the front lines, instead of MP on the backlines. (Refresh could still be used to refill their MP for this function)

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Job Ability: Runic Blade
Duration: 1 min or until any spell is cast on a target within range. (from any source: friend or enemy)
Recast: 1min
While wielding a blade, a Red Mage can stop attacking/casting and intercept any spell cast on a target within range of the effect. Intercepted spells have their effects canceled and the MP cost of the spell is absorbed by the Red Mage.
* Allowed "blades" would include Swords and Daggers (and "any job" Katanas, Great Katanas, and Great Swords for fun)
* Some spells would bypass Runic Blade entirely, such as Meteor, just like in FF6.

Used at the right time, the Red Mage could stop a potentially disasterous spell from damaging the group, and get a nice boost to their MP. They will have to be mindful of staying out of range of the other mages in the party, and good communication will be necessary with hybrid DD/Mages in melee range.

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Job Ability: En Garde (a popular name for a popular idea we probably all came up with independently, here's my spin)
* Raises Combat skills for Sword and Dagger to A-
* Unlocks all sword and dagger weaponskills that are not quested.
* Adds Job Trait: Riposte - This allows counterattacks when wielding a sword. Riposte-Counter ignores defense.
* Increases all magics' MP cost by 50%

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Job Ability: Invoke Burst
Target: 1 enemy
Duration: 1 minute/30seconds (see explanation)
Recast: 3 minutes
The next weaponskill used on the target allows the next spell cast on the target to magic burst based on the weaponskill's primary element.

* This would work similarly to how Dancers can create a skillchain with only one wild flourish and a weaponskill.
(Chainbound = Etherbound)
Example: Melee uses Shoulder Tackle on the Etherbound enemy. Someone casts thunder for (Impaction-based) Magic burst.
* Magic Bursts can be caused within 30 seconds after the weaponskill hits during the first 1minute duration of the effect. (The window of opportunity mages usually have to magic burst is extended by this ability.)

(The Elemental resist-down effect of en-spells would synchronize well with this ability, to make the most of bursts.)

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Spell: Reflect
Reflect one single target spell back at caster. (does not reflect -ga spells, but -ga spells do not remove the reflect status when they hit.)

This doesn't have to be Paladin exclusive, but it's a tactical tool that existed in past FF games, and covers one weak spot in the Paladin's defense. This may best be given to Whm, Rdm (especially Rdm) and Sch, then only much later if added to Pld.

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Spell: Brave (based on the FFT spell)
Single-party member target. (Level 50 Paladin, and later to 75 Rdm?)
* Increases attack +1 per level (max of 99)

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And a few fencing based-spells from FF1 to round things out and keep Red Mage unique in the support realm as well

Spell: Quicken
Target: Self-target only
Increases double attack rate for the duration of the effect.
* About 5%? (I'd rather not do the math) <--- This is why I don't like adding in numbers... they used it, and it was pitiful at this strength!
* Spell casting speed penalty of 5%

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Spell: Quicken II
Target: Entire party
Increases double attack, triple attack, and kick attack rates.
* Not as powerful as Quicken 1 (3%?), but adds to all 3 rates, so it could work out?
* Spell casting speed penalty of 5%

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Spell: Lock
Target: 1 enemy
Reduces enemy's evasion.

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One more thought: my post on Sword Spells further in this thread.

There we go, some melee RDM suggestions that encourage melee RDM to move up to the front lines, without overpowering mage RDM.