On Red Mage melee...

[Demon6324236]

That is very nice :O

[ManaKing]

I wanted the thing anyways. This just makes it better.

[Runalin]

So, lowbie RDM just returning to the game, and I have to say, I'm already getting a bit frustrated. Are there any melee RDM-friendly linkshells around on Odin? Kind of tired of getting treated like I'm an idiot for even suggesting that the class can be played that way, whenever it comes up in a party.

[Doombringer]

i'm not on odin, but i still feel pretty comfortable saying.. no.. there isn't.

rdm as a melee, even the THEORY of rdm as a melee, is generally unpopular. i don't LIKE it, but that is how it is.

on a personal note, as a bit of advice.. at this point in ffxi... melee RDM should not be your first job. (rdm in general prolly shouldn't be your first job) to even get to a point where people are willing to yell at you about how wrong you are, as opposed to just completely dismiss you, you need a lot of gear.

a proper redmage needs gearsets similar to what a whm, a blm, AND a war would carry. obviously not identical gear, but sets with similar intents: cure, nuke (maybe 2 nuke sets for varying resist rate mobs), buff, pdt, mdt, mnd based enfeeb, int based enfeeb (and variants on these sets for, resist rate, and the specific enfeeb. no such thing as silence potency) then to be a melee red mage, add on tp and ws sets.

you can't really half-ass any aspect of the job, ESPECIALLY if you claim to be a melee-rdm. people will grasp onto that and use it as ammo against not only you, but me, and anybody else who happens to fall on the pro-melee side of this great 162 page chasm.

for what it's worth though, a proper rdm can put out respectable numbers. but there will always be the catch 22 in that to DD, you have to not cast... every spell you cast, lowers your DPS. but if you don't cast at all, you might as well just be a warrior. dungeon crawls are rare nowadays, and they're really the only situation i can think of where the idea of rdm would be legitimately useful. having a melee that can switch over to being a mage at a moments notice is useless when you spam the same single monster fight all night and you KNOW exactly how many mages and melees you're gonna need. (and even that is assuming you are legitimately GOOD as a melee and a mage. some will argue that rdm is neither right now but.... meh..)


so yah, sorry for this soul crusher of a post, i REALLY wish rdm melee was more useful.. i have argued for it, i have done my best to represent it in a positive light, and i will continue doing it whenever possible just because that's how i want to play... but the cold hard reality is that "whenever possible" is fairly uncommon.

[Karbuncle]

RDM Melee does suffer a significant amount. You even pointed out exactly why, Casting lowers your DPS potential, and if you're not casting, You're not really a Red Mage, You're a Weak Warrior. So it is a conundrum.

Even with a Mandau and Exenterator (<3), RDM Melee is still difficult for me. I'm sure Chant would probably be better... I Just made Mandau for my THF. Need to work more on my WS gear too on RDM. my TP Set is a bit behind but still competitive.

You can do RDM Melee well on fodder content, For instance, in Dynamis you'd not be half bad if you gear right, But it just falls to the problem again, like in past Final Fantasy Titles, RDM can do a lot, just master none. You can cure, But not as good as WHM, you can nuke, not as good as BLM, you can melee, but not as good as WAR. RDM has always been a combination of jobs that favors adaptions over mastery.

Unfortunately in FFXI, SE has made them too mediocre, and they suffer greatly for it. Boosting their sword to an A- and actually giving them a few JT/JA on the side of Melee would be nice. I wish they'd make up their mind (Composure having +10 Accuracy comes ot mind....)

They have Enspells, Which could be so much more than they are now. one of the biggest (in my opinion, Non-complaints..) about Enspell is the removal of possible Haste Samba. My opinion is, RDM Should get a Job Trait, say level 30, That increases their Attack speed with Enspells on. Give it tiers to not be too powerful early on (Even though hasso.... grumblegrumble)

Level 30/50/70/90 - : Adds 3% Attack Speed Bonus with Enspell Active.
*Each Additional Tier +2, +3, +2 (Total of +10 Haste with Enspell, Same as Haste Samba, and Hasso, Counts as JA Haste).

Alternatively, Make it a Job Ability. Able to be kept up like hasso, but offer a small negative effect in return. Also would be nice to have equipment more designed toward Enspell/Enspell II, Like High Haste RDM-set with Enhancing magic skill. (If I'm not mistaken, Enspell II damage goes up based on your enhancing skill when you land the hit, Not the initial Cast, right? Or did that change...)

Theres a lot of potential with the job that would not overpower it. SE is so afraid of RDM returning to the days of Solo'ing everything, They've removed any light of what made it unique. Its an issue that needs to be addressed, but falls on deaf ears because its not their "Vision".

Mark of a bad game designer is ignoring any advice given and continuing down their path regardless of feedback. Having a "Vision" is nice, But games, even if just between Devs, are a collaborative journey. Between Devs, or Player Feedback. Not everyone can agree on RDM Melee, but every RDM in this forum would agree the job desperately needs something.

[Llana_Virren]

Just brainstorming... but with the manner in which players wish RDM could have meleed better, perhaps a JA or JT for Enspells would have been more appropriate than just the spells alone with/without Composure.

None of these are honest "suggestions" to revamping the FFXI incarnation of RDM, however, for the sake of argument, let's assume the FFXI environment for these suggestions:

====If Job Ability====
RDM.40
Instant, 5min Recast
Manablade (Allows you to target yourself with the following spells, granting an "additional effect" to your mainhand weapon:
(Additional effect chance and potency based on Enhancing Magic, despite Spell's native group)

Fire (creates Enfire, and random chance of "Additional Effect: STR down")
Water (creates Enwater, and random chance of "Additional Effect: MND down")
Thunder (creates Enthunder, and random chance of "Additional Effect: DEX down")
Stone (creates Enstone, and random chance of "Additional Effect: VIT down")
Aero (creates Enaero, and random chance of "Additional Effect: AGI down")
Blizzard (creates Enblizzard, and random chance of "Additional Effect: INT down")
Dia (creates Enlight, and random chance of "Additional Effect: Defense Down")*
Bio (creates Endark, and random chance of "Additional Effect: Attack Down")*

*Effect will stack with native spells Dia and Bio

==Merit Category (put current Tier II enfeebles on scrolls and replace with the following): Max per category 30:

=Appel (cost: 15 merit points ):
"Additional Effect: Fire Resistence Down" added to "Additional Effect: STR Down" bonus
"Additional Effect: Water Resistence Down" added to "Additional Effect: MND Down" bonus
"Additional Effect: Thunder Resistence Down" added to "Additional Effect: DEX Down" bonus
"Additional Effect: Earth Reistence Down" added to "Additional Effect: VIT Down" bonus
"Additional Effect: Wind Resistence Down" added to "Additional Effect: AGI Down" bonus
"Additional Effect: Ice Resistence Down" added to "Additional Effect: INT Down" bonus
"Additional Effect: Magic Defense Down" added to "Additional Effect: Defense Down" bonus
"Additional Effect: Magic Attack Down" added to "Additional Effect: Attack Down" bonus

=Riposte: cost: 15 merit points
Increases Parry rate, and grants additional effects to a parry, as if the parrying player had struck the target

=Insistence: cost: 15 merit points
If your attack is parried or blocked, immediately follow up with a second attack.

=Fleche: cost: 15 merit points
Sacrifice remaining enspell effect duration to boost the next attack. Chance of critical hit is increases with TP.z
(must wait 1 minute after using this ability before reapplying an enspell effect)

=Noblesse Oblige: cost: 15 merit points
Instant, 5min cooldown
When used before Manablade, allows the Enspell effect to be cast on another party member for full effect.

////////////////////////////////////

or, if we didn't change the -way- Enspells worked, we could add:

====Job Trait====
Lv.45 Enspell Bonus I (Increases accuracy and attack speed while Enspell is in effect)
Lv.65 Enspell Bonus II
Lv.85 Enspell Bonus III

[Doombringer]

If I'm not mistaken, Enspell II damage goes up based on your enhancing skill when you land the hit, Not the initial Cast, right? Or did that change...

that is correct, and it is utter nonsense... why reward someone for NOT tping in melee gear? the spell is flawed at the very foundation... after that it's all suck-gravy.

i don't immediately take 80 dmg to my stoneskin as soon as i take off my buff gear? the fuck should my enspell drop 10 points?

the ability to swap gear is like... key to just about everything any job does in ffxi.. why take that away for one spell? sometimes i consider submitting a bug report about it..

like seriously you guys... the fuck?!

[saevel]

Enspell II's suck in general, they only beat Enspell I's when your not DWing. DW with around ~30% DA makes means 2.6 average attacks per round. 30 * 2.6 = 78 average per round. Assuming Enspell II started at maximum potency (420 skill) for 52 damage (26*2) per round. Enspell I's end up 50% better, enspell II's would have to be 79 or higher in order to beat out I's. Yeah that "only on first hit" part was a really stupid idea by SE, coupled with its max potency being determined by skill on-strike.

[SpankWustler]

I don't think it's a stretch to call the second tier of En-Spells the most confounding thing in all of Final Fantasy XI.

They are working correctly unlike some of the broken Blue Magic, so that's not the reason they're so bad.

They were never the target of a heavy-handed and ham-fisted adjustment as was Modus Veritas, so that's not the reason they're so bad.

A Red Mage hitting a thing with a thing doesn't do enough damage that more damage would be an issue, so it seems unlikely the spells are awful for job balance reasons.

Yet, from applying only to the first hit to using Enhancing Magic on hit rather than on cast to requiring time to build to full damage to weakening stuff to elements in the most nonsensical way possible, the second tier of en-spells do everything wrong. Literally every decision made pertaining to these spells was the wrong one.

It is as if the Development Bros wanted to make something extraordinarily awful just to experience the pure pleasure they derive from making awful things.

[Demon6324236]

Only use I see in them is the fact of using Sambas with /DNC and still getting the effects, mainly haste samba but thats about all they are good for, other than that they are just a massive fail on SE's part, which should be changed, make them more powerful if only on 1 hand or still more powerful than En1s and both hands... If they wanted to mess with En2s and make them not just better than En1s they could have went the path of Phalanx, cast on others, but instead they gave us with very little use : /