On Red Mage melee...

[Demon6324236]

Only use I see in them is the fact of using Sambas with /DNC and still getting the effects, mainly haste samba but thats about all they are good for, other than that they are just a massive fail on SE's part, which should be changed, make them more powerful if only on 1 hand or still more powerful than En1s and both hands... If they wanted to mess with En2s and make them not just better than En1s they could have went the path of Phalanx, cast on others, but instead they gave us with very little use : /

[cidbahamut]

I think leveling White Mage is pretty much the worst advice you could give someone who wants to spend time playing Red Mage. Level a useful job, sure, but once they know you have White Mage there will be very few situations in which you'll be able to come Red Mage instead. White Mage is just that ridiculously powerful and overshadows Red Mage's utility in so many group activities.

I can't even begin to count how many times people have asked me if I had White Mage leveled.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Just pretend you didn't level it even if you did.

[Demon6324236]

Problem is say I goto a party, and its for instance a seal party, I take WHM over RDM simply for light procs because its coming up, now I join a VW party with one of the same people from that seal party and they point out I have used it with them before. Has happened to me, even if not common :x

[Llana_Virren]

That's when you just say "I'm going WHM" and stick around... there are very few people that DON'T have RDM levelled, and those that complain can just go level it themselves if they think it will make-or-break the dynamic of the group.

[saevel]

And I don't think it is just Abyssea where Scholars are overshadowing Red Mages and White Mages.

Nope not even close. You'll always bring a WHM over both SCH and RDM for two reasons, first being yellow light procs (seal / +2 items), second being Hexa during Blunt for blue procs. The only situation you'd bring a SCH over a WHM is if you already had the pops and only planned on doing two Apademaks / Azdaja, then and only then would Embrava actually mean anything. Otherwise your already overpowered for everything else.

Abyssea is about procs pure and simple. Anyone with a half decent brain can easily kill any NM except maybe Azdaja / Apadamek due to their rather unique set of TP moves. And for those two you can easily brew them should things get messy.

Now outside of abyseea, you bring SCH for embrava on super zerg fights inside Legion / Provenance, but we're talking about Abyssea here.

[saevel]

Umm lightsday / darksday what? Never heard of only going on specific days cause no matter the choice you'd still be missing a ton of procs. If your seal +2 farming you bring a BLM, otherwise your wasting a large amount of time.

Yes, waiting all day for a specific time to pop trivial shit for which we could just solo another popset rather than just go right now with what we've got is definitely something people still do in Abyssea.

You won't be "soloing" another popset anytime soon, not without red procs. If you try to proc blue outside of blunt time then your list of potential procs grows to pretty much every other job in the game. Don't proc blue and your wasting your time.

Abysea has and always will be about hitting procs to maximize loot, hitting procs is like having TH +50, its the difference between 0~2 seals dropping and 2~4 seals dropping. From 1~2 +2 items dropping to 3~5 +2 items dropping. The only time you can get around that is with timed spawn NM's that you just drive-by kill with THF + healer and hope for the best.

I only say all this because we're talking "low man duo", so two people max. MNK + WHM being ~the~ most common for blue !! procs and THF + WHM for anything else. Honestly I don't see the point in killing sh!t with only two people, even if one of them is my dual box WHM. It's a huge waste of time. Instead get these things called friends and take turns helping each other out, you can get loot much faster then constantly killing NM's hoping to get *lucky* without procs. BLM/BRD + WHM + BLU/NIN + THF is an absolute monster low man group. The WHM / BLM can be someone's naked dual box mule, so technically it's still a "duo". You will proc yellow on almost everything you fight along with hitting high TH for tons of drops. If red is an issue then switch the BLU out for a WAR/SAM (gets Jinpu, certain gear can get you Koki). You can now proc both yellow and red on pretty much everything your going to fight. If your needing to fight something for a blue proc then just have someone go change to MNK prior to the H2H time. If you don't have one of those jobs then get off your lazy arse and go level one of them. Abyssea @99 is a joke, the "hardest" NM is easily kill-able by a single person using a single temp item. Those "hardest" NM's are kill-able with low to moderate difficulty by a group of three to four people without using any brews.

[scaevola]

Umm lightsday / darksday what? Never heard of only going on specific days cause no matter the choice you'd still be missing a ton of procs. If your seal +2 farming you bring a BLM, otherwise your wasting a large amount of time.

You were the one to mention yellow procs in the context of WHM.

You won't be "soloing" another popset anytime soon, not without red procs.

If you try to proc blue outside of blunt time then your list of potential procs grows to pretty much every other job in the game. Don't proc blue and your wasting your time.

If you have MNK leveled, going for blue !! outside of blunt time is indeed a waste, but only because blunt time rolls around once every 40 minutes and MNK blows everything else out of the water to a degree that I have a hard time seeing as anything other than an oversight on SE's part.

If you don't have MNK leveled, you shouldn't sweat it, because pretty much every DD can hit a good third of the potential blue procs during at least one phase, and there are maybe a half dozen drops in all of Abyssea worth worrying about that come from NMs with popsets that any DD/WAR capable of not dying can't solo in under an hour.

Abyssea is easy. Only idiots allow the perfect to become the enemy of the good.

Abysea has and always will be about hitting procs to maximize loot, hitting procs is like having TH +50, its the difference between 0~2 seals dropping and 2~4 seals dropping. From 1~2 +2 items dropping to 3~5 +2 items dropping. The only time you can get around that is with timed spawn NM's that you just drive-by kill with THF + healer and hope for the best.

No, Abyssea is about hitting procs when it is convenient to hit procs. Otherwise it is about getting things done in as little time as possible, and procs are only relevant insofar as they help this goal. If you say, "gosh, I had better wait until light/darksday so my WHM can hit yellow procs for +2 items," you're doing it wrong, because right now there is a different NM you could be killing for a substantial chance at a procless +2 item you're after.

I only say all this because we're talking "low man duo", so two people max. MNK + WHM being ~the~ most common for blue !! procs and THF + WHM for anything else. Honestly I don't see the point in killing sh!t with only two people, even if one of them is my dual box WHM. It's a huge waste of time.

You only think that because you don't understand the value of time.

Instead get these things called friends and take turns helping each other out, you can get loot much faster then constantly killing NM's hoping to get *lucky* without procs. BLM/BRD + WHM + BLU/NIN + THF is an absolute monster low man group. The WHM / BLM can be someone's naked dual box mule, so technically it's still a "duo". You will proc yellow on almost everything you fight along with hitting high TH for tons of drops.

To the rather debatable extent that scheduling one's free time around the vast reserves of wasted time in which manchildren populating this game swim is ever worth it at all*, it certainly isn't worth it for the purposes of procs in Abyssea.

If red is an issue then switch the BLU out for a WAR/SAM (gets Jinpu, certain gear can get you Koki). You can now proc both yellow and red on pretty much everything your going to fight. If your needing to fight something for a blue proc then just have someone go change to MNK prior to the H2H time. If you don't have one of those jobs then get off your lazy arse and go level one of them. Abyssea @99 is a joke, the "hardest" NM is easily kill-able by a single person using a single temp item. Those "hardest" NM's are kill-able with low to moderate difficulty by a group of three to four people without using any brews.

NIN/WAR for everything you need a KI from, BST for everything you don't. Just buy Epona's Ring.

*HEY GUYS HAVE YOU SEEN THIS ANIME AND/OR REDDIT MEME

[Llana_Virren]

No, Abyssea is about hitting procs when it is convenient to hit procs.

It is -never- convenient to -not- hit procs.

[SpankWustler]

I'm not sure what the point of this current discussion is, at least as pertains to Red Mage.

Much like a pair of short-pants made out of living porcupines, Red Mage's use in Abyssea is due entirely to a very subjective choice made for personal reasons or desperation due to lack of other options. Not that the former can't be a valid reason, it definitely can be when something can be as laid-back as Abyssea can be, but both are totally unrelated to effectiveness and thus any attempt to discuss effectiveness sounds a little ridiculous.

I really, really, really want to continue my stupid simile about porcupine short-pants but I have nothing else to say. So, I looked up a ridiculous picture using Google Image Search to satisfy my juvenile sense of humor.

the vast reserves of wasted time in which manchildren populating this game swim

I am sated.