On Red Mage melee...

[Greatguardian]

LOL and my AF weapon is a sword not a staff what the hell is your point.

On the topic of our AF3+2 set, it gives a direct boost to our melee by reducing casting loads. This combined with the increased Fast Cast rate gives you about a 5% damage increase. Not bad for gear you use to macro on a cast.

Oh hey, 5% damage increase. I wonder where that number came from. Care to provide ... anything to back that number up? Like, anything quantifiable? As in, things you can actually measure from which to draw that 5% number?

Oh yeah, I forgot, you disagree with me so you're obviously an "xbox nub" and an "Abysgimp". I'm not taking anyone's side here. I'm on my side. And on my side, you're full of it. Want to come in here and rant about how fast cast gives you some immeasurable amount of extra time to swing your sword? Save it. We have enough people arguing over subjective, qualitative bullshit in here already.

If you have the free time between casting to hit the engage button, cast more because you're being a lazy "Abysgimp".

[Mageoholic]

Fast Cast is not qualative? I am sorry what?

50% fast cast reduces cast time by 28.6% (over 30% fast cast)

(example Slow II 3 second cast, base fast cast = 30%, 3*.7 = 2.1, Wchap/Dtabby = 50% 3*.5 = 1.5, dif = 1.5/2.1 = .714 (28.6) )

This is true for every 3 second cast we use, on our selves or on our allies.

AFv3 increases the composure effect by 35% for all buffs, which is 35% less time having to cycle, and equates to a 35% increase in melee time.

28.6+35% = 63.6% increase to overall melee time per enhancing spell we cast
28.6% increase to melee uptime per enfeebling spells

with 6 hastes alone it is a 3.8% increase to melee uptime.
with 6 refreshes it is a 3.8% increase to melee uptime
with all 12 it is a 7.62% increase to melee uptime.

This applies to nuking damage as well. Fast Cast and AFv3 are a direct damage increase to RDM schools of damage.

This is for swaping into 5 pieces of mage gear btw. which was my point that our AF sets have all enhanced our melee, even though they had primarily mage stats.

[Rayik]

You'll notice nobody on that forum made any preposterous claims about RDM melee's greatness. No ridiculous assumptions about what RDM is designed to do, not a single mention of lolFencer (it's just a name, folks), nothing. Just some random *** saying Haste isn't good for RDM DoT and somebody else complaining about Empyreans and relic hat being too hard. If you want to be taken seriously... yeah. Not pointing at you in particular, but anybody who has read this thread knows who the *** are.

My point was that a civil discussion on RDM melee has taken place, without the constant nagging and horse-blinders bickering about the why's and why nots. Sure, maybe the advice wasn't so great, but at least they could just discuss a play style without turning it into a 5 thread, 500 page war.

Someone simply said "I like playing this way(lol), what gear would you guys suggest?" and instead of jumping on their high-horses, preaching and shouting about how X job should be played, they *gasp* answered the question and offered suggestions. Imagine that for a second. They even cleared the air right away about how "sub optimal" it is, but at least respected someone's chosen play style.

[Neisan_Quetz]

If you're casting 6 refreshes there's other problems that need to be addressed before you're thinking about meleeing.

[Mageoholic]

it is an example to show that you save 63% on every buff you cast. I didn't expect there to be 6 refreshes. So lets say you cast 12 spells every 60 seconds. That is a 7.62% increase to time spent meleeing than it is if you don't gear swap. On a lighter spell casting say 6 spells every 60 seconds you see a 3.8% increase to melee.

Essentially the more you cast the larger % you gain over not swapping into fast cast afv3 set up. Even though your larger total melee time drops.

All it is is a comparison between using Fast Cast and AF3 and not, to provide a bonus to your melee (or nuking). This is gear that has no melee stats giving a 63% (for buffs) and 28.6% (non buffs) increased melee time per spell. Anyone who does not think Fast Cast and AF3+2 set bonus and gear bonus do not provide a direct increase to damage output (be it melee or nuking) is an idiot, plain and simple.

[Neisan_Quetz]

I don't see it as a direct boost since I'm not required to melee or nuke to benefit from the bonus, but that's just how I look at it.

[Rayik]

Nevermind on the whole FFXIAH civil melee discussion. A new thread popped up and it's proving to be just as troll-filled and abrasive as the ones we have here.

[Karbuncle]

Thats probably because outside of the RDM melee fanatics, Everyone feels the same way about RDM melee.

My opinion? Already voiced in these threads.

Edit: Also LOL at the idea of going to FFXIAH for civil FFXI Discussion, thats like going to 4Chan expecting intellectual civil conversation.

[Rayik]

Thats probably because outside of the RDM melee fanatics, Everyone feels the same way about RDM melee.

My opinion? Already voiced in these threads.

Edit: Also LOL at the idea of going to FFXIAH for civil FFXI Discussion, thats like going to 4Chan expecting intellectual civil conversation.

Yeah, I know. It does happen sometimes. Personally, I'm waiting until after the update to start a new melee thread devoted to just "talking shop", but that depends entirely on what in all happens with the update. Otherwise, we're just going to continue the same song and dance the past 5 related threads are enduring now.

[cidbahamut]

Nevermind on the whole FFXIAH civil melee discussion. A new thread popped up and it's proving to be just as troll-filled and abrasive as the ones we have here.

It probably didn't help that they posted that one in General rather than the RDM subforum.