On Red Mage melee...

[Rayik]

I think it's highly questionable whether meleeing on RDM is an intended purpose at this point in the development cycle.

Atheling Mantle and Calmecac Trousers say hi. Those are awesome TP pieces; I'd hardly think RDM was added by accident. Also, as Greatgaurdian mentioned, Almace and Badelaire +2.

[cidbahamut]

Bard is on those as well, but I don't hear the Bard community up in arms about their god-given right to stab things.

We're on Bersail Cap. Does that mean we should all be shooting arrows at things too? See, the gear argument only goes so far. You can't rely on gear options alone to derive intent. Heck you can't rely on any aspect alone to determine "intended purpose", but gear is an especially bad measuring stick if you're trying to argue for melee. Why? Because the gear options available for our magical side completely and totally outclass even the best of the melee side of the equation.

[Rayik]

Bard is on those as well, but I don't hear the Bard community up in arms about their god-given right to stab things.

Maybe because this isn't the Bard section?

At the very least, I'd say when a job has self-only En-spells, a JA that grants +Melee Accuracy, I'd say melee was at least one intended role. No, not optimal, not fulltime, but definitely there. See? Not a piece of gear mentioned.

[Rayik]

Okay, seriously, what is going on here? Some of you anti-melee crowd are acting like the very notion of RDM melee is some fever dream just made up out of nowhere, as if we were no different from a SCH trying to melee. Even if it's not your preferred play style, how are you not seeing that at least in some point in the 8+ year history of FFXI it was at least intended? That's just ignorant.

[cidbahamut]

Yes. Meleeing is indeed an option. Every job in the game can do it.

[Rayik]

Yes. Meleeing is indeed an option. Every job in the game can do it.

And not every job in the game has self-only enhancing spells solely for melee, and JA abilities that contribute to it. You're just arguing for the sake of arguing.

[Greatguardian]

Red Mage has some of the best overall gear access in the game, it's actually one of the job's strengths. It can be geared to do just about anything, that's why it's on things like Atheling Mantle and Calmecac's. However, I strongly disagree with the notion that gear should be a prerequisite to do things at an acceptable level. That's what it comes down to, isn't it? Empyreans are just another piece of gear. WoE Weapons were specifically designed so that casual players can use the same Empyrean WS as everyone else. WoE weapons are not "High end", "Difficult", or "Limited" gear.

If a Red Mage wants to cast, he better have some staves finished. If a Red Mage wants to melee, he better have a WoE sword. If anything, it's easier to finish than a single Magian Staff =/.

[Rayik]

Red Mage has some of the best overall gear access in the game, it's actually one of the job's strengths. It can be geared to do just about anything, that's why it's on things like Atheling Mantle and Calmecac's. However, I strongly disagree with the notion that gear should be a prerequisite to do things at an acceptable level. That's what it comes down to, isn't it? Empyreans are just another piece of gear. WoE Weapons were specifically designed so that casual players can use the same Empyrean WS as everyone else. WoE weapons are not "High end", "Difficult", or "Limited" gear.

If a Red Mage wants to cast, he better have some staves finished. If a Red Mage wants to melee, he better have a WoE sword. If anything, it's easier to finish than a single Magian Staff =/.

Empyreans are absolutely not "just another piece of gear" if it grants the most powerful sword WS in the game.

Like I said above, I'm working on getting CDC now.

[Greatguardian]

Empyreans are absolutely not "just another piece of gear" if it grants the most powerful sword WS in the game.

1) WoE weapons. Casual content. Easier than a Magian staff.

2: You're posting really fast so I'll just move this here,

Edit: You posted as I was writing, so yes, you did misread Duelle's suggestion. Rather, you missed an important tidbit he keeps putting in and then trying to ignore when people read it and realize what he's saying.

He doesn't just want stances. He wants to split the Red Mage spell library in two and only give access to certain spells when under certain stances. In particular, he has mentioned only making Blink and Stoneskin available while in Melee stance, and has made allusions to other significant spell cuts to magical Red Mage.

It's like Scholar's Arts/Addendum system except even worse for the player.

[Rayik]

1) WoE weapons. Casual content. Easier than a Magian staff.

2: You're posting really fast so I'll just move this here,

Edit: You posted as I was writing, so yes, you did misread Duelle's suggestion. Rather, you missed an important tidbit he keeps putting in and then trying to ignore when people read it and realize what he's saying.

He doesn't just want stances. He wants to split the Red Mage spell library in two and only give access to certain spells when under certain stances. In particular, he has mentioned only making Blink and Stoneskin available while in Melee stance, and has made allusions to other significant spell cuts to magical Red Mage.

It's like Scholar's Arts/Addendum system except even worse for the player.

Yikes, I did misread then. I could understand if it were only while under the effect of a stance, but completely chopping our list in half is pretty cruddy. This game has come too far to see any job get such a massive overhaul, especially a primarily negative one.

And yeah, I'm on my lunch break at work, so I'm pretty much just on here posting. In case I dind't make myself clear before, I don't want the mage-side of RDM to suffer. I enjoy meleeing when the option is viable, but I didn't get to 90 just meleeing. I'd be okay with something optional, like a stance, but I think that's even pushing it at this point.

When I next log into the game, I'm going to start getting my trials together for a CDC sword. No sense making any further arguing or fighting when a perfectly viable option exists in-game to do what I want to do. I'm glad to have a discussion on the ins and outs of the job, but I'm sick of fighting. Maybe my coffee wore off.