On Red Mage melee...

[Rayik]

If you won't be content with anything less than a nerf, then shove off. No one wants to hear it. I don't care how you justify it to yourself. Real Red Mages aren't going to sit idly by while you destroy our class.

I love how anyone who disagrees with you is "destroying our class". Get off your high horse, you aren't the spokesman for all of RDM kind.

I think the idea of a stance could be viable, but we're already the worst job at every class of spells that's still considered a mage, so nerfing magic would hurt. Yes, I know what our Enhancing Skill rating is, show me the Enhancing Spells that back it up that someone else(coughWHMcough) doesn't already have better versions of.

I don't want to see our magic side nerfed. It's bad enough every worthwhile NM in the game is either resistant or flat out immune to our enfeebles as-is. I'd honestly be happy with just a better WS, doesn't even need to be Vorpal Blade. A worthwhile magic-based WS and I'll be a happy camper.

[Eeek]

I love how anyone who disagrees with you is "destroying our class". Get off your high horse, you aren't the spokesman for all of RDM kind.

I think the idea of a stance could be viable, but we're already the worst job at every class of spells that's still considered a mage, so nerfing magic would hurt. Yes, I know what our Enhancing Skill rating is, show me the Enhancing Spells that back it up that someone else(coughWHMcough) doesn't already have better versions of.

Wow...

With glaring mistakes of this caliber, I hope you're not the spokesman for anything.

I hate to break it to you, but Greaguardian is correct, and pretty much every RDM with any semblance of talent shares his opinions.

[Rayik]

Wow...

With glaring mistakes of this caliber, I hope you're not the spokesman for anything.

I hate to break it to you, but Greaguardian is correct, and pretty much every RDM with any semblance of talent shares his opinions.

Opinions are awesome.

I never said I was the spokesperson for anything. I simply want a facet of the job that exists in-game to be a little more viable in a group situation. I don't feel a hybrid job needs to be relegated to one position only. Sort of goes against being a hybrid, really.

[Greatguardian]

First off, the melee camp is hilariously misguided.

Secondly, chat with Doombringer if you don't know how to play and gear RDM. Actually, you should probably chat with him anyways since, based on your posts, you're probably doing something (or some things) incredibly wrong. Melee RDM, in the hands of a competent player, seems to do fine in situations where it's reasonable to melee.

I think it's now fair to argue that the RDMs who just need a crutch in the form of melee adjustments from SE - well ... those RDMs simply aren't capable of, for whatever reason, gearing and playing the job properly.

This is the important point that a lot of people are missing.

I love how anyone who disagrees with you is "destroying our class". Get off your high horse, you aren't the spokesman for all of RDM kind.

Seriha, Supersun, and Hyrist disagree with me and I'm not accusing them of trying to destroy Red Mage. Duelle is the one trying to nerf Red Mage's spell selection and casting abilities. That is pretty screwed up, and I dare say I'm confident enough to speak for many Red Mages when I say that we will not stand for it. I could care less about a melee buff, provided that it does not nerf our magical aspect or take away development time from our magical aspects. The latter is still a big deal. Hours spent figuring out the balance and implementation of a new Melee ability are hours spent doing absolutely nothing for the successful aspect of Red Mage.

I think the idea of a stance could be viable, but we're already the worst job at every class of spells that's still considered a mage, so nerfing magic would hurt. Yes, I know what our Enhancing Skill rating is, show me the Enhancing Spells that back it up that someone else(coughWHMcough) doesn't already have better versions of.

This is pretty off base. We miss all of, what, Cure V, Regen 3, and T5 nukes / -Ga nukes? Red Mage has an astoundingly powerful spell selection, all things considered. Especially because we're not shackled down with the same horseshit that Scholar is. Stances that simply increase melee potency or increase magic potency? That's fine. I can just fulltime the magic one, win/win. Stances that affect spell selection and/or nerf casting abilities/ranges? No.

I don't want to see our magic side nerfed. It's bad enough every worthwhile NM in the game is either resistant or flat out immune to our enfeebles as-is. I'd honestly be happy with just a better WS, doesn't even need to be Vorpal Blade. A worthwhile magic-based WS and I'll be a happy camper.

Chant du Cygne is the best Sword WS in the game. Use that. (inb4 getting WoE weapons is hard. Goes back to point #1, if Rdm melee sucks, get better gear and it won't suck. Every job is the same).

[Rayik]

This is the important point that a lot of people are missing.



Seriha, Supersun, and Hyrist disagree with me and I'm not accusing them of trying to destroy Red Mage. Duelle is the one trying to nerf Red Mage's spell selection and casting abilities. That is pretty screwed up, and I dare say I'm confident enough to speak for many Red Mages when I say that we will not stand for it. I could care less about a melee buff, provided that it does not nerf our magical aspect or take away development time from our magical aspects. The latter is still a big deal. Hours spent figuring out the balance and implementation of a new Melee ability are hours spent doing absolutely nothing for the successful aspect of Red Mage.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't he simply suggest a stance for melee? If you don't want to melee, don't use the stance, your spells would be just fine. Again, sorry if I misread his suggestion.

This is pretty off base. We miss all of, what, Cure V, Regen 3, and T5 nukes / -Ga nukes? Red Mage has an astoundingly powerful spell selection, all things considered. Especially because we're not shackled down with the same horseshit that Scholar is. Stances that simply increase melee potency or increase magic potency? That's fine. I can just fulltime the magic one, win/win. Stances that affect spell selection and/or nerf casting abilities/ranges? No.

Yeah, we get some nice spells, and everyone else in the game gets nicer ones. And yes, since you have no interest in melee, just fulltime the magic one. Win/win.

Chant du Cygne is the best Sword WS in the game. Use that. (inb4 getting WoE weapons is hard. Goes back to point #1, if Rdm melee sucks, get better gear and it won't suck. Every job is the same).

I'm working on getting this WS. I'm not putting my faith in SE to help our native WS, so it looks like if I'm going to really get anywhere with melee, I'm going to have to break down and get CDC. I still don't think we should have to finish an Empyrean weapon to get a decent WS, but that seems to be where we're at, so be it.

[Karbuncle]

I don't know, I think the problem is that a lot of people who play FFXI have played past FF Games, and rather they admit it or not, all their opinions are 100% biased on how RDM use to play.

They have some glorious nostalgia vision of RDMs in combat hitting things and slinging spells. The problem is, FFXI decided "Fk that noise, enjoy enhancing and enfeebling", They decided to give RDM a speciatly, unfortunately it was not melee.

The problem is we need to accept that, and try to work on ways to improve the job where its strongest.

If they turned around and said "Hey THF, your new weapon is greatsword" would i be like "QQ BUT I WANNA RP DAGGERS", fk no, I'd take my Greatsword, and shove it up the mobs a** faster than you could blink...

Why you might ask? because i don't care about a silly RP of the job so long as what they're giving me helps my job participate better and contribute more to a fight. Sneak Attack Torc? rofl-plow some stuff i say.

But really, this works on both sides, If by some Miracle SE decided "You know what, RDM does need a melee buff", and they started by adjusting RDM's sword skill to A-, adding more powerful Enspells that didn't overwrite Sambas (Where applicable), and gave RDM a slew of Defensive/Buff abilities to compliment RDM melee, Would that not be acceptable?

Because it would still greatly benefit the job without the need for a nerf.

And to the Melee crowd, come to accept RDM is exactly where it was in Past FF Games, a Mediocre melee with access to good weapons, but not a master of them. Luckily for you they are a master at something, unlike past games. SE isn't held to past game but something tells me they're content with RDM melee as it is. But still, you need to ask yourself why you feel so strongly about it?

Would a buff to Enhancing/Enfeebling that greatly boosted your desired-rate in a party slot be that bad? Would you sacrifice utility for Role-playing if you had to chose?

[Rayik]

I don't know, I think the problem is that a lot of people who play FFXI have played past FF Games, and rather they admit it or not, all their opinions are 100% biased on how RDM use to play.

They have some glorious nostalgia vision of RDMs in combat hitting things and slinging spells. The problem is, FFXI decided "Fk that noise, enjoy enhancing and enfeebling", They decided to give RDM a speciatly, unfortunately it was not melee.

The problem is we need to accept that, and try to work on ways to improve the job where its strongest.

If they turned around and said "Hey THF, your new weapon is greatsword" would i be like "QQ BUT I WANNA RP DAGGERS", fk no, I'd take my Greatsword, and shove it up the mobs a** faster than you could blink...

Why you might ask? because i don't care about a silly RP of the job so long as what they're giving me helps my job participate better and contribute more to a fight. Sneak Attack Torc? rofl-plow some stuff i say.

But really, this works on both sides, If by some Miracle SE decided "You know what, RDM does need a melee buff", and they started by adjusting RDM's sword skill to A-, adding more powerful Enspells that didn't overwrite Sambas (Where applicable), and gave RDM a slew of Defensive/Buff abilities to compliment RDM melee, Would that not be acceptable?

Because it would still greatly benefit the job without the need for a nerf.

And to the Melee crowd, come to accept RDM is exactly where it was in Past FF Games, a Mediocre melee with access to good weapons, but not a master of them. Luckily for you they are a master at something, unlike past games. SE isn't held to past game but something tells me they're content with RDM melee as it is. But still, you need to ask yourself why you feel so strongly about it?

Would a buff to Enhancing/Enfeebling that greatly boosted your desired-rate in a party slot be that bad? Would you sacrifice utility for Role-playing if you had to chose?

Good points, but the thing with screwing up our main weapon(dagger WS's instead of sword) just doesn't make any sense. That's what I want fixed. And yeah, I'll admit to some of it being Role-Playing based, but isn't this a role-playing game?

I just want a minor fix. I don't want a full-job overhaul, I don't need a slew of new Job Abilities, I don't even need new gear. Fix what we got, it's all I'm asking.

[Greatguardian]

Rdm is on Almace and Badelaire+2, best mainhand swords in the game, with the best sword WS in the game. It doesn't need access to weaker WS.

[Rayik]

Rdm is on Almace and Badelaire+2, best mainhand swords in the game, with the best sword WS in the game. It doesn't need access to weaker WS.

And yes, those are great, but a job (any job) should not have to complete an Empyrean weapon just to function normally (or viably) at one intended purpose.

[cidbahamut]

I think it's highly questionable whether meleeing on RDM is an intended purpose at this point in the development cycle.