On Red Mage melee...

[Stylin]

ITT: Progress is "damaging" to the game.

The reason this thread has 1000+ posts is not because a compromise is impossible; this lies on your shoulders for having the hubris to tell other people they're not allowed to want something.

[cidbahamut]

ITT: wasting time and resources on trivial things instead of making meaningful adjustments is "progress".

[Swords]

ITT: wasting time and resources on trivial things instead of making meaningful adjustments is "progress".

You know progress is always preceded by trial and error, and SE can only predict how the audience will react to a new adjustment. If everything was going to go to SE's original plan NIN would have never been a tank, RNG would have never needed to be nerfed, we would still be in balanced parties, and zerging would only be referenced to Starcraft games.

Most of these "trivial" things are usually taken out of context to what SE originally intends, even if the "trivial" item fits the "Archtype" of the class. THF are all about treasure and trickery, thus get abilities like steal, mug, despoil, SA, TA, and TH. Not all those abilities are considered useful especially in a party setting, but they're there and are a part of the job. RDM is no different in this aspect, it's based off a fencer/magic swordsman Archtype and gets things like en-spells and composure for the melee side and buffs, nukes, cures, and enfeebles for the magic side.

Weather or not players consider one aspect viable, useful, or useless is a different story, but no matter how much SE listens or chooses not to listen there are folks who are still going to be unhappy and think anything that's changed that might deter a job from it's current state is the worst thing that could happen to the job.

[Supersun]

ITT: just because you don't care for the lore of the final fantasy series means the Dev team isn't allowed to take 2 minutes to change 5 lines of code that would satisfy 99% of these complaints and every change in this game has to be relevant to you.

Seriously, your anti-melee rdm fanaticism is starting to scare me Cid. Your crusade is starting to borderline Starcade level obsession.

[Greatguardian]

ITT: just because you don't care for the lore of the final fantasy series means the Dev team isn't allowed to take 2 minutes to change 5 lines of code that would satisfy 99% of these complaints and every change in this game has to be relevant to you.

Seriously, your anti-melee rdm fanaticism is starting to scare me Cid. Your crusade is starting to borderline Starcade level obsession.

You're right. I forgot. The Devs just have a magic switch somewhere in their office that allows them to make Red Mage Melee good. They just never turned it on. No worries, I'm sure if you rabble about it enough they'll consider exerting the enormous amount of effort it would take to turn that switch on and everything would be hunky dory.

Oh yes and I obviously love crushing the dreams of other people. That's totally the only reason I post here.

[cidbahamut]

I'm anti-stupid, not anti-rdm. Red Mage is the job I play pretty much to the exclusion of everything else. Sorry if you can't tell the difference.

[Seriha]

Some irony, Drjones.

[Greatguardian]

As much of a complete and utter geek as I am, there is a massive difference between players who look at a job's name/archetype and demand that whatever it happens to be now conform to that preconception, and players who look at what a job actually is and think about how to make it better at what it does.

Funny, one group is almost always more successful than the other, both in-game and in the idea market. I wonder why that is.

[Rayik]

As much of a complete and utter geek as I am, there is a massive difference between players who look at a job's name/archetype and demand that whatever it happens to be now conform to that preconception, and players who look at what a job actually is and think about how to make it better at what it does.

Funny, one group is almost always more successful than the other, both in-game and in the idea market. I wonder why that is.

The job is sold as a Magic Swordsman. I want to use magic AND my sword, and you make it out that this is asking too much? Go to www.finalfantasyxi.com, click on "Your Characters", and scroll down to the Red Mage job description. All we're asking for is to actually do what the job does that we signed up for.

Again, I'm asking you, how do YOU know that your biased perspective on the job is the "correct" one? The job is a hybrid; it'd be different if we were arguing against a WHM curing or a BLM nuking, but we're not. You're more than happy to pigeon-hole a hybrid into a single role, and you don't see the problem?

It's not like we're asking to nuke on DRK, we're just asking that an existing facet of the job be brought up to a playable level. Your precious "only stand in the back and cast spells" play style is not in any danger, so what do you honestly care? Why does it bother you that there could be a possibility of the job doing what is was intended to do?

If I wanted to be a SCH, I'd just be a SCH.

[cidbahamut]

The job is sold as a Magic Swordsman. I want to use magic AND my sword, and you make it out that this is asking too much? Go to www.finalfantasyxi.com, click on "Your Characters", and scroll down to the Red Mage job description. All we're asking for is to actually do what the job does that we signed up for.

Those descriptions haven't been updated in nearly a decade, you really think those count for anything? Heck, if we're going by that then Warrior is some sort of defensive class that specializes in preventing damage to other party members. Guess what? It isn't, just like SpankWustler isn't a master swordsman.

It's not like we're asking to nuke on DRK.

Actually it's exactly like that, except that DRKs seem to know what they're good at and get angry when SE tries to give them magic updates because it doesn't actually do anything for the job.

Your precious "only stand in the back and cast spells" play style is not in any danger, so what do you honestly care?

Because it is in danger? I think someone else already covered it, but time spent developing melee nonsense is development time that should have been spent making worthwhile adjustments to the job.

Why does it bother you that there could be a possibility of the job doing what is was intended to do?

If I wanted to be a SCH, I'd just be a SCH.

If you honestly think playing Scholar is the same as playing SpankWustler, then you probably haven't done a whole lot with SpankWustler. The two play very differently and do not offer the same utility at all.