On Red Mage melee...

[cidbahamut]

You're projecting pretty hard. Extrapolating isn't difficult.

So how about you spill the beans and list off some of the stuff you've tackled and tell us a bit about how you play. That is, unless he's got you pegged correctly and you haven't bothered exploring Red Mage's strengths because you're too busy swinging your sword. So which is it?

[Seriha]

And so begins the inevitable "Nuh-uh!"

Maybe I'm talking as I am because I've been there, done that, got the t-shirt, and still feel it's shoddy game design for monsters built to give a party/alliance a challenge to be tickled to death by DoTs or cheesed through bad pathing or hate reset/zoning exploits.

Is kiting a viable strategy? Sure. Taking a simple step to force a mob to do a u-turn? Not so much.

Should Bind and Gravity still be useful on (H)NMs? Yes. However, I actually agree with resistance building on both so, at best, it could allow a group to recover from one wipe. The two allowing a mob to never get near you for 15 minutes or more? Takin' a leap on balance there.

Are Stoneskin, Phalanx, Blink, Protect, Shell, and a combination of PDT or MDT sets enough to make us immortal? No. Add a certain spell from a subjob that completely negates either physical or magical single-target damage, though, and longevity definitely multiplies. Slow and Paralyze certainly help this out. Blind and Evasion might be a factor if RDMs weren't bricks.

Is there anything I missed without going into a specific mob worth caring about and how to handle what it dishes out? I mean, lugging around some echo drops, remedies, and the like as a situation demands is hard, right? I couldn't possibly be an alchemist and have some of those on me at all times. No, I'm just too busy swing, swing, swinging away to know nothing about how the game works or the people who play it.

[cidbahamut]

Knowing and doing are two different things.

So the question remains: What have you personally tackled? Or is this all theorycraft?

[Seriha]

Forgive me if I doubt either of you two will believe me since I don't record anything I do in-game. Ohnoes, I'm backpedaling!

[Gokku]

Avesta was here said your point is moot.

[Supersun]

Good luck capping PDT efficiently without a Terra's Staff.

Because those Rdm/Blu solo videos totally don't exist with a PDT sword/Genbu shield.

[Aurara]

Soloing=/=meleeing in a party setup.

[Duelle]

The fact of the matter is that the Developers both actively and passively support Red Mage's "cheesy" and "badly designed" strengths.

Being hands off and waving off/ignoring the melee camp at the 2008 fanfest is cheaper and requires less manpower than manning up and admitting they screwed up the design for RDM and mean to fix it. Passing off bad design and oversights in mechanics as "class features" is a very bad thing. Sadly, not enough people have been breathing down SE's neck over RDM soloing, and the fact Tanaka and Matsui closed themselves up through their entire tenure in XI did not help at all. The hole they dug themselves into when they created Refresh is another thing, too.

They win by enfeebling the monster, curing themselves, mitigating damage, and dealing damage all at an incredible level at the same time.

Except you can't do that all at the same time. Considering gear was RDM's balancing factor before the devs chickened out and allowed overt swapping, it is still a core element of the job's design. This is why the job in its base form doesn't have a stance mechanic or anything that makes a modern hybrid tick. The problem is that in the current game that balancing factor is null and void because everyone can swap gear mid-combat.

Hence why I've been adamant about adding a stance mechanic to RDM to give the melee and backline camps what they want without screwing over anyone (that is not the Avestas of the world, who simply ruined things for the rest of us). Sadly, to make RDM work you either have to kill gear-swapping or toss in mechanics that facilitate the possible roles so that gear adds on to that instead of being the factor that allows you to do something in the first place. Right now the job is left as purposely gimp in certain parts to make the buffbot aspect attractive without it being capable of going too far. Also, Fast Cast affecting anything other than schools of magic native to RDM was a mistake.

Can a Melee Red Mage sit in AoE range of a monster, while melee'ing, and do anything but eat up MP? Notrly.

I wouldn't expect it to without the proper mechanics. Hence this thread.

Oh, and LOL at you trying to justify the genbu-soloing idiocy as an art. Might as well call Reckoning Bomb the Mona Lisa of HNM/Boss soloing. Seems that according to you, that should have never been nerfed.

Soloing=/=meleeing in a party setup.

Which brings us back to our topic. RDM melee lacking and the fact it should be fixed rather than the persistent trolling from various parties.

[Aurara]

Nobody is trolling, we are pointing out why it's not viable, lol.

[Duelle]

Nobody is trolling, we are pointing out why it's not viable, lol.

Massive difference between disagreement and repeatedly going "ur doin'it wrong".

As far as non-viable, we all know why it's not viable. We just can't seem to agree on an approach to correct it.