On Red Mage melee...

[Neisan_Quetz]

Was replying to Supersun saying Ballad 1 was equal to Refresh 2, I'm trying to figure out how.

[Karbuncle]

IDK, Either way, Even I'm sad how far this thread has devolved into special-Olympics territory.

I don't think the guy arguing for RDM melee realizes he epitomizes every reason its not acceptable. the whole "Half-assed" attitude of using Gimp Swords to compliment his mage abilities (Why stop there? should fulltime teal brah).

The reason RDM Melee is looked at negatively is because obviously, its not great, but also because of the bad RDMs giving it a bad name. Namely those who find it acceptable to use inferior weapons (MAB swords, MAcc swords) to make up for their lack of Staves, When they'd be better off using useful wepaonry and just switchint to a staff/wand when its absolutely necessary.

[Supersun]

Was replying to Supersun saying Ballad 1 was equal to Refresh 2, I'm trying to figure out how.

Err yeah, forgot about our pants that makes it 7 MP/tick.

But you can't look at refresh 2 and say that it gives 6 MP a tick. You have to look at the economic cost of what you are losing from using refresh II which is basically it overwriting refresh 1 which every mage should already have so in essence all you are really giving the mage is 3-4 MP/tick.

Bard has received armor and instruments to augment their ballads to the point where Ballad 1 can give +3 MP/tick that stacks WITH refresh 1. So in essence Refresh II is giving someone 7 Mp/tick while Ballad + Refresh is giving someone 6 MP/tick.

And this is with just with ONE bard song (the weakest ballad too). It still frees up the other song for something useful like Sentinel's Scherzo.

[Aurara]

Still not sure why you're arguing for less MP/tick.

[Eeek]

Err yeah, forgot about our pants that makes it 7 MP/tick.

But you can't look at refresh 2 and say that it gives 6 MP a tick. You have to look at the economic cost of what you are losing from using refresh II which is basically it overwriting refresh 1 which every mage should already have so in essence all you are really giving the mage is 3-4 MP/tick.

Bard has received armor and instruments to augment their ballads to the point where Ballad 1 can give +3 MP/tick that stacks WITH refresh 1. So in essence Refresh II is giving someone 7 Mp/tick while Ballad + Refresh is giving someone 6 MP/tick.

And this is with just with ONE bard song (the weakest ballad too). It still frees up the other song for something useful like Sentinel's Scherzo.

In this hypothetical PLD PLD BRD COR RDM WHM tank party, why in the hell would the WHM and BRD go /RDM? /SCH and /WHM, respectively (maybe /SCH for the BRD?). I can't speak to what the PLDs should sub as I've never done Voidwatch, but assuming /RDM, why would they waste their time casting Refresh I on themselves if a RDM is present to cast Refresh II? They have better things to do and will want the better Refresh.

[Doombringer]

thanks karbuncle.. at this point i just feel the need to say it..

i DO come down on the pro-melee side of this debate..








but my rdm melees with a fucking almace..........

[Hyrist]

Still not sure why you're arguing for less MP/tick.

Out of context, neither am I. Hold on *backreads*

"Losing 6/tic refresh in gear by melee'ing is not a big deal because RDM has a spell called Refresh"

Ah.

Loosing 6mp/tic (Earring, Body (2), Hat, boot/gloves (1)... and I'm guessing the augmented undies, god please tell me there's an alternative.) Is kind of irrelevant in the contexts you WOULD be meleeing, as your casting load is simply not that high.

And by casting load I mean main healing (in situations in which incoming damage is high or debuffs on the party members are plentiful), being the primary magic proc (Dynamis) or nuking your face off.

Not that our idle gear hasn't gotten dead sexy in the time I've been away. It has. Getting those pieces are kind of a priority for me right now. But there hasn't been much in the way of increased casting difficulty/load for us yet in any situation in which we'd front line, and we've already gotten an additional 3 mp/tic, buff duration enhancements, and a crap ton of other bonuses through gear that have actually offset our overall costs. Which will be even more MP efficient if/when we get Cure V.

There's a reason why it's called 'idle' gear. However. We're supposed to be wearing it when we're not doing anything. (and yes, duh, I realize we can piecemeal it to have some form of constant refresh while casting.) And honestly, especially for the back line. I want to be doing more.

[Supersun]

Still not sure why you're arguing for less MP/tick.

First off it's not quite a full 1 MP/tick since you have to consider the initial MP spent for those spell and ballad being free.
In terms of party total MP it's a bit closer to .8 MP/tick if you include the MP cost of the spells.

And I'm not sure about you but losing .8 MP/tick for one more song like Sentinel is WELL worth the cost.
If for some reason you really need the MP then Pld, Pld, Whm, Cor, Brd, Smn would be MUCH better anyway.

why in the hell would the WHM and BRD go /RDM? /SCH and /WHM, respectively (maybe /SCH for the BRD?).

Convert? Can /sch really compete with that MP efficiency? I'm not the best mathematician in the world, but /sch would have to save more then 1000 MP every 10 mins.

And I agree that the whm shouldn't be casting refresh on themselves if they don't have to. In a Pld, Pld, Whm, Cor, Brd, Brd set up one of the Brds should be doing it instead.

For now you could make a point that a Brd subbing /sch or /whm might be better for cure IV, but by 99 the only argument against /rdm will be status heals.

Seriously, Brd/Rdm is going to be the enhancing superman.

[Aurara]

whm/sch is better MP efficiency than any other sub.

[Aurara]

Also, ballad3>ballad1 so keep telling us why we wouldn't want more mp/tick in lowman situations?