Throwing WS?

[Bulrogg]

That was a few years ago; if re-polled will their response be the same? It doesn't even have to be something flashy.
Have the NIN jump off screen like a DRG does, have some shurikens hit the mob then the NIN lands.

Ok, maybe that was kinda flashy but I'd be for it.

[Valkrist]

That's like saying...

"Can I grow a third arm?"
"No... That's not humanly possible."

*Few years later*

"Can I grow a third arm yet?"
"No...."

[FioryGriever]

I personally have always wanted a throwing WS, and to the argument, yes itd make shurikens hella more appealing, but you could easily make some WS apply to returning WS only by writing it in, Requires Chakram/Boomerang and could make em @ least 3 hit WS... on top of single hit WS inflicting debufs, stunning, bind effect, grav effect etc, AND elemental effects... It was also mentioned that theyre ideal for instances where you wouldnt want to be as close the the enemy but still want to deal dmg, and ur not always going to be rng/cor or subbing either for WS.. NIN could also seriously use Recycle traits if throwing will be useful @ all, cuz those suckers are expencive which is another issue entirely lol

[Ezrin]

SE officially responded to this a few years ago. They can not add WS to thrown weapons because of technical issues with how the game is programmed.

I don't really see why not, think about SAM and NIN when they first came out in RoZ, they were completely new weapons and got ws, just doesn't make any sense to me.

[Swords]

While throwing WS would be fun to mess with, at the same time its sort of moot.

1- Most throwable weapons (returning and ammo) have low DPS, and the consumeables that do have decent-high DPS are usually hard to come by in large quantities without breaking your coin-purse.

2- Last I checked, Throwing weapons still suffer from the same limitations and restrictions other ranged weapons use. Meaning you have to get just the right distance away from the mob to reliably land and optimize your damage. And let me tell you even with Atma's, Ranged attacks are still pretty lacking outside of Emp. WS.

3- There's also the manner of swapping out Ranged Attack/Acc gear to give the WS power.

4- There is 6 jobs with a C or greather throwing skill, and only 3 NIN, DNC, SAM could really make use of it. The other three, RNG, COR, and PUP use their ranged/ammo slots for other equipment.

I won't say there wouldn't be uses for having a Throwing WS even if its NIN or /NIN. For starters, you could WS without going into a mobs AoE range. It can also be good for pulling giving a tank a good hate spike while keeping a safe distance, especially if your tank is /nin and has nothing else to pull hate with. Anyways, those are just a few thoughts off the top of my head.

[Jackastheripper]

Am I missing something when people try to use the defense "only certain jobs can make use of it, so why add it"? They have all kinds of limitations on the weapon skills in place and I don't see how job limitation makes this not a good idea. We also get all kinds of weapon skills that are for all purposes useless except for in very certain situations. I don't see how throwing weapon skills would be any different. My main is Monk and it has horrible throwing skill but I would get no use out a throwing weapon skill with the exception of blasting something with a pebble for my own giggles. But again, that is just me. Proceed.

[Valkrist]

I don't really see why not, think about SAM and NIN when they first came out in RoZ, they were completely new weapons and got ws, just doesn't make any sense to me.

SAM and NIN are both using weapon types that function near identical to prior weapon types. The weapon types for SAM and NIN are just reskined weapons of previous weapon types. All they had to do was just make a different skill type (like blue magic) be associated instead of say great sword or dagger. There were no changes to the framework when SAM and NIN were made. The fact that there's dual-wielding means it was intended when the game was first being designed before alpha play tests, or that there was very little to be changed to the framework to allow it.

When you design a typical car, you make it with one set of things in mind. Mostly to drive on land with four wheels. Asking for WS for throwing weapons is asking for a change that's like wanting to make a car into an aircraft. Cars are not designed to be aircrafts simply because they were never designed to ever have modifications to cause them to ever become airborne. The game was designed in such a way that they never intended thrown weapons to ever have a WS. Making changes like this is not like moving furniture about the room to change how the room looks and feels. The framework of the game can not be changed easily, or at all, to allow throwing weapons to have WS.

When FF1 was rereleased past the NES days, do you think they just altered the framework to make it look pretty? With every single release of FF1, the game has been remade from the ground up using the original game as a reference point. If SE was to try to use the original FF1 engine to make a new game, it will look, sound, and act identical to FF1.

Altering the framework is not going to be as easy as entering one string of code like using a Game Genie. Even then you can get serious errors using a GG, simply because the game was not designed to allow for "such and such" to happen with such a little change of code. You're talking literally up to hundreds of thousands of lines of code to be changed just so that you can have a WS. Is it possible to change it so that there's a WS. Yes. Are they willing to dedicate that much time, money, and manpower to make this change? No. With enough time, money, and manpower... Even a car can be changed into an aircraft.

[Swords]

Am I missing something when people try to use the defense "only certain jobs can make use of it, so why add it"? They have all kinds of limitations on the weapon skills in place and I don't see how job limitation makes this not a good idea. We also get all kinds of weapon skills that are for all purposes useless except for in very certain situations. I don't see how throwing weapon skills would be any different. My main is Monk and it has horrible throwing skill but I would get no use out a throwing weapon skill with the exception of blasting something with a pebble for my own giggles. But again, that is just me. Proceed.

This is true to a degree, almost every WS has it's uses and I even went as far to mention a few situations where it might be useful. However, like I mentioned most throwing weapons are low DPS, suffer a huge drawback of ranged attack mechanics, using R.atk/R.acc gear, and overall skill. NIN aside every other job with throwing skill is C+ and lower, a grand majority of users who do not use other types of ranged attacks are usually up there wailing on the mob doing more damage, and the mobs you typically wouldn't melee on you wouldn't be doing ranged attacks on either.

[Jackastheripper]

First thing I could think of is using them as hate control on a pull. Would allow for maybe a tank job to do some pulling while getting more hate off the bat without burning, say, provoke or something of that nature. Meh, just a though. Good discussion though.

[AyinDygra]

There is a way to add Throwing Weapon skills that most people probably haven't thought about:

The basic idea behind thrown weaponskills is: When a player has 100+ TP, they have access to a command that uses the item in the "Range" or "ammo" slot to inflict HP damage and/or other effects on the target. Combine with other "weaponskills" to form skillchains that allow magic bursts.

So, to create this effect without adding "Thrown Weaponskills" in a traditional sense, there are several already in-game systems in place that make possible job abilities for this purpose:
Making a command available after a player has enough TP: Dancer's waltzes.
Job ability that enables skillchains: Dancer's Wild Flourish.
Job ability requiring an item in the Ammo slot (could just as well be the range slot): Dragoon's Angon, Warrior's Tomahawk, Ninja's Sange.

Combine these elements and you get "Thrown weaponskills" that function like weaponskills without the programming hurdles that have prevented this in the past.

They may need their own battle menu, if they can't be directly incorporated into the weaponskill listing system.

Thrown weapons also seem to be more "stylish" or unique to each job that has them. Since they're not directly limited by the existing weaponskill system, there are a few creative twists I'd take on them, to make them more job specific:
* Ninja: Throwing Arts (shuriken attacks with effects, perhaps enhancing ninjutsu with special scrolls)
* Thief: Cloak and Dagger (darts with status effects and enmity manipulation)
* Puppetmaster: Transmit (animator) (see: Pup forum thread)
* Beastmaster: Whiplash (whips - bonuses to pet, intimidation effects, etc)
* Corsair: Trick Dice (like Setzer in FF3/6j, and perhaps have the last 3 rolls' results produce another effect like slots)
* Dancer: Flamenco (could be dances with ranged damage/effects)
* Ranger: Aiming (like FFT's Aim Leg: don't move, Aim Arm: Don't act, Aim Head: don't cast, etc)
* Monk: Blitz (they could have similar techniques to Sabin in FF3/6j)
* Summoner: Subdue (whips - Rydia's whips had elemental and enfeebling properties - bind/paralyze)
* Samurai: Gil Toss (ok, didn't really think too hard about Samurai)

This idea needs some more refinement, but I think it would work great!