Fostering Skillful Play

[Prrsha]

Go, Japanese FFXI-players, go! My hopes and dreams rest upon your dorky shoulders! Imagine 100 inventory slots as a ten-year-old girl with pig-tails and PURSUE THAT DREAM! Fight for it! Go!

It's more about having more macro slots, more then anything. Matsui is saying that is not in the near agenda but is being looked into for later.

PS Is one of the dogs in your sig from Mega Man 3 btw? :3

Edit: double post

[SpankWustler]

It's more about having more macro slots, more then anything. Matsui is saying that is not in the near agenda but is being looked into for later.

PS Is one of the dogs in your sig from Mega Man 3 btw? :3

That's understandable. People who have found a way to cope with the current macro system can't come right out and make an argument like, "It isn't possible to use a third party program to fix the issues I have with inventory space, so please prioritize that if you have to pick a difficult issue to wrestle with." Looking at FFXI right out of the box, the six-line macros are the most ridiculous part of the interface.

Yeah, the mechanical dog towards the middle is Rush. Treble, however, is absent.

[Toadie-Odie]

There is a massive discussion going on in the Japanese forums right now on that very matter. As is the problem with inventory space.

Yes, thank you for the insight.

I sometimes wish the schools I went to had taught more than just French, Spanish, and Sign Language. Playing an international game like this makes the language barrier more apparent, frustrating, and daunting. It's little wonder that so many of the NA players, like myself, feel ignored or pushed aside.

I do however greatly appreciate the effort that goes into translating and reading ALL these posts.

[Rustic]

I would just like to point out that some people are still desperately waiting for SE to fix the macroing system. It's not really relevant whether there are third party tools or not - not everyone can use third party tools, and not everyone WILL use them, even if they can. I don't want to turn this into a debate about such things, but please be aware that, even if a macroing fix would not directly benefit you, it has the potential to massively enhance many players' enjoyment of the game. Surely that is something positive?

I'd like to think about it this way. We have third-party systems that have become effective parts of the game- not so much as "hacks", but simply as quality of life upgrades- "windower" programs being a biggie, extended macroing systems another. If they're officially tolerated, then the next step should be finding ways to make them intergrated with FFXI in ways that both the dev team and players would find appealing. That this would also mean those 3PP's no longer worry so much about being broken repeatedly with updates.

Alternatively, take what IS acceptable from these programs and intergrate it, then simply watch the game data. There are things that extended macroability make doable that no person using the basic UI could manage. Note that in the process, you'd also have to redo a lot of higher-end mobs that have been balanced against players who commonly use said programs.

We live in an interesting world in Vana'diel- where PC players have always had a bit of an advantage due to the ease of client-side customization, even if such actions are against the TOS, they're often effectively undetectable in a direct fashion.

[Jerbob]

I'd like to think about it this way. We have third-party systems that have become effective parts of the game- not so much as "hacks", but simply as quality of life upgrades- "windower" programs being a biggie, extended macroing systems another. If they're officially tolerated, then the next step should be finding ways to make them intergrated with FFXI in ways that both the dev team and players would find appealing. That this would also mean those 3PP's no longer worry so much about being broken repeatedly with updates.

Alternatively, take what IS acceptable from these programs and intergrate it, then simply watch the game data. There are things that extended macroability make doable that no person using the basic UI could manage. Note that in the process, you'd also have to redo a lot of higher-end mobs that have been balanced against players who commonly use said programs.

We live in an interesting world in Vana'diel- where PC players have always had a bit of an advantage due to the ease of client-side customization, even if such actions are against the TOS, they're often effectively undetectable in a direct fashion.

It would be wonderful if SE would take these things on board and integrate them, certainly. I would take issue with the idea that they are simply a quality of life addition, though - as you've said, they have a direct impact on a player's capabilities and so represent something quite different to something like the official windowing program or something like dat modding a piece of gear that you find repulsive.

[Rustic]

It would be wonderful if SE would take these things on board and integrate them, certainly. I would take issue with the idea that they are simply a quality of life addition, though - as you've said, they have a direct impact on a player's capabilities and so represent something quite different to something like the official windowing program or something like dat modding a piece of gear that you find repulsive.

That's basically what I'm saying. Third party programs are a slippery slope. Some are simply cosmetic changes, others give a discernable advantage only at high levels of play, still others are outright cheatware (such as noclip capacity letting you bypass doors and such).

The first is a gold mine of pointers to upgrades to FFXI proper, the second mark things that need to be said "This is OK, this is banworthy" and the former seriously considered for work., and the third need to be examined in detail for how they break the game, the exploits destroyed with prejudice, and the players using them chewing on a big ol' LM-17 or worse.

Heck, I've been wondering for years when they'd add optional .DAT file DL's as a way of giving specific clients graphics upgrades without leaving PS2 users in the lurch. Doesn't hurt the gameplay, makes the PC/XBox interface a prettier thing to look at.

[Jerbob]

That's really good to hear, actually, thanks.

[Rambus]

Can there be more details on how Fostering Skillful Play will be done? I felt that was lost when Aht Urhgan came out. Some of the new nms that came after that was interesting as there is a few of them that could qualify as Fostering skillful play but overall I feel that was lost when AU and beyond came out. Everyone and their mother have emps and relics and jsut plows though everything. Anything that is remotely "hard" revloves around "zerging"

Then there is the problem of the stuff that is challenging does not give reward equal to effort.

[Godofgods]

I would actually have to agree with the majority on this one. The macro system is messed up. Personally i never liked the idea of gear swapping in the middle of battle anyway, but SE has decided to move in that direction by creating tons of equipment with stats that serve for just that purpose.

But moving in that direction and then limiting macro's are counter productive of each other. If your playing legitimately, and you have a full gear swap, your looking at around 3 macros. Then a WS macro. Then 3 more macros to get back to what you had. Thats insain. It takes almost an entire book of macros to do a single action.

The botting argument for not wanting to increase macro space never made much sense to me either. (Unless you increased it to like 2000 lines lol) The macros are very simplistic. Its not like you can use an IF - THEN inside one. And if it were increased to 15-20 lines, its still not like u could press a macro and come back in 6 hours and see your character still at it. Alls that does is decrease the amount of times i have to press the key on my keyboard while I'm sitting here forever.

Last point is that the majority of the player base already uses some form of increased macros or spell casts. People that don't use them (like me) are very hard to find. Which means the only ppl really hurting from this are those that are 'playing by the rules'. And thats a pretty bad way to act towards those players that are paying for this.