Remove or decrease race penalties

[Demon6324236]

While I agree with you mostly, you are somewhat wrong. "it takes a lot longer than a month (not to mention a shit ton of money) to re-level crafts, get AF3+2, do limit breaks, quests, COP/ToAU/ZM/VW clears etc. etc." Crafts, yes. AF3+2 is fairly easy especially if you have a LS your obviously putting this new character in, limit breaks are cake, and getting easier every few months even, quests are so so, they can take time, but depends which you are talking about, CoP takes 1 week, ToAU takes 1~2 weeks, Zilart is able to be done in a single day, VW is a pain because it can be hard to find people for win runs. I wouldn't say most of the things are hard to do, the only real problems I see are luck based drops. Getting back your Mekira body and your Corus from Qilin are going to be your real pains to get back.

[Byrth]

I've got 99 Ragnarok, Ukonvasara, Twashtar, and Terpsichore, along with 110 Alchemy. Please tell me again how re-rolling is a viable option.

[Mirage]

I've got 99 Ragnarok, Ukonvasara, Twashtar, and Terpsichore, along with 110 Alchemy. Please tell me again how re-rolling is a viable option.

I'm sure you noticed the tarutaru disadvantage long before you got all those weapons

I'm not suggesting that rerolling is a real option, I'm just messing with you

[Arcon]

If there's enough customization, then changing races or merits wouldn't be needed.

That's the point. They aren't needed.

You're suggesting blanding the races so that players can do better with a race choice that doesn't match the jobs they want to play. That's not logical and that's not how MMOs work.

You are mistaken in assuming race has anything to do with jobs. That is not how FFXI works. FFXI's unique job system allows people to play all jobs regardless of race, and nothing else limits their job experience either, so why should race?

Making a new character to be good at other jobs is not an acceptable solution, the fact you even mentioned it shows you have no grasp whatsoever of how MMORPGs work.

Byrth said it very well:

I've got 99 Ragnarok, Ukonvasara, Twashtar, and Terpsichore, along with 110 Alchemy. Please tell me again how re-rolling is a viable option.

Choice of race is permanent for most people, regardless of how your mind works.

We're agreeing that everyone needs more HP but you're saying that Taru having less HP naturally makes them more likely to get one-shotted... well thats part of the race.

It's part of their race to suck at something but not be better at anything else? Tarutaru is objectively the worst race to play because of the importance of their worst stat, and non-importance of their good stats. INT may be arguable, but it's still nowhere near as important for mages as HP is for melee.

This isn't a cop out if you actually take the time to look beyond the "I want more STR but maxed it out on gear" argument, which is the real argument that no one wants to admit to.

Why would anyone even want that? What's so great about 11 extra STR? The (very unlikely) 1% damage output increase?

Attributing tens of millions of gil to 11 STR is not wrong but can be misleading. People pay that much for STR at the end of the spectrum not because 11 STR is actually that good, but because it is that rare. The hardest HQ items are hard to come by, both crafted ones as well as dropped ones. Price does not scale linearly, so looking at the end of the spectrum isn't representative for how good the stat is, but only how much the stat is worth. Which can still be a lot, because that doesn't mean that people wouldn't actually pay that much to get 11 STR. But that price is not representative for the stat as a whole, because it's determined by player desires and not by objective worth.

[Llana_Virren]

That's the point. They aren't needed.

So if you don't need to change races (meaning the change provides negligible to non-existent bonuses), then therefore reducing or eliminating race differences is equally unnecessary.

You are mistaken in assuming race has anything to do with jobs. That is not how FFXI works. FFXI's unique job system allows people to play all jobs regardless of race, and nothing else limits their job experience either, so why should race?

I was responding to the suggestion that players chose a race for the job they wanted to play, only to have SE change that job and force the player(s) to chose a different job. Don't take my response as an original idea to make it sound less credible. The original suggestion wasn't credible and that was the point of my response.

Making a new character to be good at other jobs is not an acceptable solution, the fact you even mentioned it shows you have no grasp whatsoever of how MMORPGs work.

So you've never played a game like, oh, I don't know, WoW, or DND? You've never played a game where you select race -and- job and they're frozen (aside from sub/secondaries)?

Why would anyone even want that? What's so great about 11 extra STR? The (very unlikely) 1% damage output increase?

"11" was an example, but the fact remains that the argument to lower (or reduce) race differences is fundamentally so that DDs aren't "gimped" my something so trivial.

[FrankReynolds]

So if you don't need to change races (meaning the change provides negligible to non-existent bonuses), then therefore reducing or eliminating race differences is equally unnecessary.

Or we just don't need to have them at all. The real question is not whether or not the racial stats make a difference. The question is whether or not they enhance the enjoyment of the game. A few people think they are a good thing because they think that it somehow makes them a more unique and special snowflake. While others (myself included) find them to be a nuisance which causes a lot of problems without any real tangible benefit.

I was responding to the suggestion that players chose a race for the job they wanted to play, only to have SE change that job and force the player(s) to chose a different job. Don't take my response as an original idea to make it sound less credible. The original suggestion wasn't credible and that was the point of my response.

You were insinuating that it was the players responsibility to pick a race based on the jobs they want to play, which in a game that never changes would still be a difficult task because a person can't really know what they like until they have tried it and at that point it is too late to change.

In reality though, the devs keep adding jobs and events which means that a players taste is highly subject to change. It is virtually impossible to choose the correct race if you play for any reasonable amount of time.

For example: Joey picks his race based on his desire to play red mage. The devs continuously make red mage suck (true story. You can check on this). Joey decides that even though he loves red mage, he must become a monk to be successful in end game and contribute to events with his friends. Didn't joey get shit on enough already by having his job become weak and undesired? do you really need him to have to re-roll his character and waste months / years redoing everything now too? Why are you so sadistic?

So you've never played a game like, oh, I don't know, WoW, or DND? You've never played a game where you select race -and- job and they're frozen (aside from sub/secondaries)?

This game has 20(22) jobs that you can change to at any time. It has nothing to do with WoW's job system and that is one of it's biggest selling points.

"11" was an example, but the fact remains that the argument to lower (or reduce) race differences is fundamentally so that DDs aren't "gimped" my something so trivial.

And why should they be?

[Llana_Virren]

Or we just don't need to have them at all. The real question is not whether or not the racial stats make a difference. The question is whether or not they enhance the enjoyment of the game. A few people think they are a good thing because they think that it somehow makes them a more unique and special snowflake. While others (myself included) find them to be a nuisance which causes a lot of problems without any real tangible benefit.



You were insinuating that it was the players responsibility to pick a race based on the jobs they want to play, which in a game that never changes would still be a difficult task because a person can't really know what they like until they have tried it and at that point it is too late to change.

In reality though, the devs keep adding jobs and events which means that a players taste is highly subject to change. It is virtually impossible to choose the correct race if you play for any reasonable amount of time.

For example: Joey picks his race based on his desire to play red mage. The devs continuously make red mage suck (true story. You can check on this). Joey decides that even though he loves red mage, he must become a monk to be successful in end game and contribute to events with his friends. Didn't joey get shit on enough already by having his job become weak and undesired? do you really need him to have to re-roll his character and waste months / years redoing everything now too? Why are you so sadistic?



This game has 20(22) jobs that you can change to at any time. It has nothing to do with WoW's job system and that is one of it's biggest selling points.



And why should they be?

So the major crux is, "reducing race differences serves no purpose, so therefore, its valid and should be done."

Because if you think you're "gimped" by being on a certain race, yet you think its playstyle, not race choice, that determines a players' mettle, then you're running down your own argument.

Either race differences matter, and therefore should remain in place because they are designed to matter, or race differences don't matter and therefore should not remain in place because of a non-existent way that they do matter while not mattering.

[mizukanji]

I like the race stat things but i do wish we got a small amount of stats though i wish we had a guide in game .. i mean throwen in completely loss is bad

[Demon6324236]

Its not, its stupid, I agree, but most things are not hard to get back. Ukon/Twash are annoying, but easy, Mythic is a bitch to do again, and Rag is time. My point is that most things that are not severely luck based can be gotten back much fairly easily, so long as your resources did not change much since.

[Mindi]

There should be a SE-sercive (you pay it like a monthly fee to play the game or to servertransfer) to change your race. Should not touch the race-differences at all, if ppl want to change their race should make them pay for it. If those who complain about their race are really bothered that much they can also pay a few €/$.

The Race-differences ingame should remain untouched.. beside.. all races wouldnt mind a HP boost.. like 20% for each race.