Money

[Meyi]

Now these players try to discourage you from crafting

Not true. I was merely informing him that crafting takes awhile before it starts to become profitable. Many crafts have it set up so that products made result in less gil than the ingredients cost. Especially recipes where one must HQ to overcome this hurdle (ex. Silent Oils).

If he is just starting out it's difficult to have the gil for armor, weapons and spells, let alone money for raising craft levels.

Crafting is a slight investment, you put in crystals and ingredients that you don't put in while farming, then you hope they sell at the AH. But once you get past that small hurdle (selling crystals if all else fails), you can turn it around into an easy but guaranteed payout.

Crafting requires specific recipes at specific levels. One does not simply put in any ingredient and expect a profit out of it.

With no crafting skill whatsoever, you can immediately start by making Copper Ingots. Buy/farm the fire crystals, then either go to the Goldsmithing Guild shop in Bastok, or find an NPC that sells Copper Ore for 9~15 gil, buy four, craft them, repeat until you have a stack. Sell the stack on the AH for profit, but watch for flooding the AH with them.

Yep, this is a good craft for beginners. Hadn't thought of Copper Ingots. Brass Ingots (level 9 goldsmithing) are also great gil in stacks. And they sell pretty fast. You mentioned turning them into sheets and hairpins, which is a good idea if he's deciding to level goldsmithing. But again, it's a gil loss and so not the best idea if he's trying to make some quick money without having to spend it to make it first.

Hence why I told him to consider holding off crafting until he has enough money in his pocket to consider it.

[Economizer]

Not true. I was merely informing him that crafting takes awhile before it starts to become profitable. Many crafts have it set up so that products made result in less gil than the ingredients cost. Especially recipes where one must HQ to overcome this hurdle (ex. Silent Oils).

Okay, I get it, I somehow misrepresented you or contradicted you so now you have to reply about how I'm wrong in some way.

I'm sorry if I misrepresented you, but sheesh.

If he is just starting out it's difficult to have the gil for armor, weapons and spells, let alone money for raising craft levels.

Which is why I suggested he get some money from selling crystals or some other items for gil.

Copper Ingots cost (assuming 5000 Gil a stack for Fire Crystals, and 12 Gil a piece for Copper Ore, it is less on my server for both generally) an investment of about 5576 gil, and they sell for about 20~30k depending on the server, with a profit of in the neighborhood of something like 18k. A player can either farm other crystals or fire crystals very easy, and a book gives out something like 200~500 Gil per page, making crafting not such a big investment for even the poorest, although it is still an investment of Gil unlike straight farming.

Crafting requires specific recipes at specific levels. One does not simply put in any ingredient and expect a profit out of it.

Did you even read what I wrote?

Crafting is a slight investment, you put in crystals and ingredients that you don't put in while farming, then you hope they sell at the AH. But once you get past that small hurdle (selling crystals if all else fails), you can turn it around into an easy but guaranteed payout.

I don't even know how this parses to "put in random stuff and lolprofits!" at all. This is me talking about how crafting is a Gil Investment between the time you craft and the time you AH things even on cheap synths like Copper Ingots.

Yep, this is a good craft for beginners. Hadn't thought of Copper Ingots. Brass Ingots (level 9 goldsmithing) are also great gil in stacks. And they sell pretty fast. You mentioned turning them into sheets and hairpins, which is a good idea if he's deciding to level goldsmithing. But again, it's a gil loss and so not the best idea if he's trying to make some quick money without having to spend it to make it first.

Again, read what I wrote.

Once you hit 9 Goldsmithing, you can even craft your Brass Ingots (at a loss) to Brass Ingots -> Brass Sheets -> Brass Scales, then Brass Ingots -> Brass Hairpins (save one for test item).

Now perhaps I should have been clearer, but this is (and it is kinda obvious) for after they've made money selling some Copper Ingots and Brass Ingots, if they want to make more profit on Silver Ingots. The stuff I wrote is a pretty easy guide (and pretty much a copy of anything on a wiki) on how to get to 20 Goldsmithing while making bank.

Nothing I wrote is bad advice, just as telling players to farm because it has no upfront investment (ignoring AH fees) isn't bad advice. I'm just trying to open up options for players who might not like farming.