To Devs: Fix Blu

[Tennotsukai]

where is prothescar when you need him....I know blu is good on a lot of mobs, but it still needs fixed. Blu is not overpowered... also, savael..you contradicted your original post by agreeing with me. I think you're just pissed cause I'm asking for 2 or 3 spells to have a higher duration in which SE has already said at least one spell does suck and the others they would have to think on.

This is mainly about spells guys. Completely broken spells that have potential, breath spells that are a waste of code, and just the pure lack of damage from spells on higher content keeping us from end content.

Blu will not get anymore nerfs. I promise... if they receive anymore I'll apologize and quit the game. I mean c'mon...are you guys seriously getting legion invites as blu?

[Llana_Virren]

This is mainly about spells guys. Completely broken spells that have potential, breath spells that are a waste of code, and just the pure lack of damage from spells on higher content keeping us from end content.

Poison 1 is a waste of coding after Poison II. Same with Bio 1. Dia 1. Cure 1-3. Protect/ra 1-4, Shell/ra 1-4, etc. This is what happens when a game is no longer "progressive" and becomes stagnant in old age. FFXI is not dying, but what you're seeing is gameplay engineering from when the game was actually played from Lv1-Lv75+endgame.

The argument about BLU spells being an issue doesn't work when you compare it to jobs like BLM or WHM. I don't remember the last time I casted a tier 1 nuke (tier 2 is the lowest as a proc) or tier 1 -ga, or Cures 1-3. Or Protect II. Or Boost-CHR.... Should these spells be removed just because they serve no purpose?

Yes, there are areas in BLU, like any job, which could be improved (cough, BLU procs, cough). But to suggest somehow that BLU needs to be fixed is simply wrong.

[Tennotsukai]

poison 1 and bio 1 get used once in your jobs life time. breath spells except for heat breath for proc neeeeever get used. all those spells that you listed can serve a purpose even though no one will utilize that purpose of boost chr (maybe with the newer jobs). breath spells had a purpose, but now are extremely resisted. would you ever use vapor spray? no... would you ever use bio 1? of course, though earlier on.

Hope you also know I am talking of Tourbillion and Barbed Crescent. They are broken.

oh and subbing those jobs you'll want to still use many of those spells you listed.

[Llana_Virren]

poison 1 and bio 1 get used once in your jobs life time. breath spells except for heat breath for proc neeeeever get used. all those spells that you listed can serve a purpose even though no one will utilize that purpose of boost chr (maybe with the newer jobs). breath spells had a purpose, but now are extremely resisted. would you ever use vapor spray? no... would you ever use bio 1? of course, though earlier on.

Hope you also know I am talking of Tourbillion and Barbed Crescent. They are broken.

oh and subbing those jobs you'll want to still use many of those spells you listed.

During the good old days of actual parties and level ups and serious battles, those that used Bio were fools, plain and simple. The circumstances where Bio was more viable than Dia were so rare that you only used it when you were soloing something on RDM and needed the DoT damage, because the benefit to Dia on every DD was greater than the benefit of Bio for your (hopefully) 1 tank....

Poisonga? Yeah never needed that spell ever*.
Diaga? Nope*.

(*Note that until ToAU no mobs put up 3+ shadows with a single move; as a result mobs typically lost all shadows before this spell would be viable. So, in that regard, the usefulness of Diaga (or any quick-casting -ga spell) actually came later in the game.

Not every spell in the game needs to have a purpose; I don't see many BLUs Bomb-Tossing, but its certainly an emotional event for anyone who partied in the 'Dunes to be able to run around the zone and frag every one of those damned mobs.

[Yugl]

Poison 1 is a waste of coding after Poison II. Same with Bio 1. Dia 1. Cure 1-3. Protect/ra 1-4, Shell/ra 1-4, etc. This is what happens when a game is no longer "progressive" and becomes stagnant in old age. FFXI is not dying, but what you're seeing is gameplay engineering from when the game was actually played from Lv1-Lv75+endgame.

The argument about BLU spells being an issue doesn't work when you compare it to jobs like BLM or WHM. I don't remember the last time I casted a tier 1 nuke (tier 2 is the lowest as a proc) or tier 1 -ga, or Cures 1-3. Or Protect II. Or Boost-CHR.... Should these spells be removed just because they serve no purpose?

Yes, there are areas in BLU, like any job, which could be improved (cough, BLU procs, cough). But to suggest somehow that BLU needs to be fixed is simply wrong.

Way to miss the glaring flaws with your argument: The spells referred are the top-tier of their respective class and the test server's magic accuracy differs from the real server. What does the former mean? That means he's not complaining about a spell outclassed by later tiers of said spell. Your "progression" argument is irrelevant. What does the latter mean? That means there's either a flaw with the magic accuracy of the test server or the real server. In other words, a glitch. Given that the magic accuracy of said spells and weapon skills (Yes, this issue has implications beyond BLU), were greater prior and SE never mentioned a universal nerf to the additional effects of . . .

-Tourbillion (Add. effect: Defense down)
-Sandspin (Add. effect: Accuracy down)
-Barbed Crescent (Add. effect: Accuracy down)
-Hecatomb Wave (Add. effect: Blind)
-Tachi: Ageha (Add. effect: Defense down)
-Metatron Torment (Add. effect: Defense down)
-Onslaught (Add. effect: Accuracy down)
-Full Break (Add. effect: Accuracy, Attack, Defense, and Evasion down)
-Armor Break (Add. effect: Defense down)
-Shell Crusher (Add. effect: Defense down)
-Randgrith (Add. effect: Evasion down)
-Nightmare Scythe (Add. effect: Blind)
-Skullbreaker (Add. effect: INT down)

This would imply that the discrepancy between the real server and the test server is due to an error with the real server's magic accuracy rate.

[Llana_Virren]

Way to miss the glaring flaws with your argument: The spells referred are the top-tier of their respective class and the test server's magic accuracy differs from the real server. What does the former mean? That means he's not complaining about a spell outclassed by later tiers of said spell. Your "progression" argument is irrelevant. What does the latter mean? That means there's either a flaw with the magic accuracy of the test server or the real server. In other words, a glitch. Given that the magic accuracy of said spells and weapon skills (Yes, this issue has implications beyond BLU), were greater prior and SE never mentioned a universal nerf to the additional effects of . . .



This would imply that the discrepancy between the real server and the test server is due to an error with the real server's magic accuracy rate.

2 things:
1. Not everything is supposed to be so useful as to matter at all, or even all the time. As I said specifically with Diaga and Poisonga: no purpose, not even at the level they are first available.

2. Discrepencies between the test server and live server do not inherently mean a glitch. The conditions and in some circumstances the mechanics are significantly altered.

More to the crux of the issue though; while some aspects of BLU need to be addressed, the job itself is not broken or in need of fixing.

[Yugl]

2 things:
1. Not everything is supposed to be so useful as to matter at all, or even all the time. As I said specifically with Diaga and Poisonga: no purpose, not even at the level they are first available.

2. Discrepencies between the test server and live server do not inherently mean a glitch. The conditions and in some circumstances the mechanics are significantly altered.

More to the crux of the issue though; while some aspects of BLU need to be addressed, the job itself is not broken or in need of fixing.

Diaga is utilized even at 99 (ex: Odin v2 adds, gather mobs for magian trials, or generic gathering of mobs), so how you manage to classify diaga as a "purposeless" spell is questionable. As for your second point, the fact that there's a discrepancy between the test server and the real server regarding magic accuracy of a mix of weapon skills and blue magic highly suggests that the discrepancy is unintended. The OP isn't referring to a set of spells introduced with full magic accuracy and initially implemented on the real server with varying accuracy. We're talking about spells and weapon skills that have behaved normally for years, saw reduced magic accuracy on the real server, saw normal magic accuracy on the test server as a result of a following update, and subsequently never transferred that regained magic accuracy to the real server. In short, there's no reason for the discrepancy between the two servers. If the intention is to nerf magic accuracy, the test server should reflect that.

Finally, the fact that these magic accuracy discrepancies have implications for weapon skills BLU may not access inherently suggests this matter is beyond BLU itself. Thus, your last comment is utterly irrelevant for the matter. Diaga and Poisonga do what their description says. They inflict dia/poison to targets within a range. Spells and weapon skills that don't carry out their description either have poor descriptions or glitched mechanics. The fact that they have worked in conjunction with these mechanics for years indicates the latter is the likely scenario.

[Llana_Virren]

Diaga is utilized even at 99 (ex: Odin v2 adds, gather mobs for magian trials, or generic gathering of mobs), so how you manage to classify diaga as a "purposeless" spell is questionable.

If you go back to when I first mentioned these spells, it was that until content was added (such as NMs who can put 6+ shadows up) or Magian trials, Diaga and Poisonga had no purpose. Being given a purpose now does not mean that they were always useful.

The argument I was countering was that BLU spells never had a purpose and are therefore a waste of data space. Protect/Shell 1-3 are a waste of data space because they no longer have a purpose; just like tier 1 nukes, and diaga, and poisonga, etc. Having magically stumbled upon a use in 2010 doesn't mean they magically became useful from 2002-2010.

You can't use the 2002-2012 argument of "well spells used to be useful but now they suck" (pro-fix) without also accepting the fact that some spells used to have no use and now they do (my position). You can't ignore the mechanics of the game as a whole while addressing that the test server doesn't match the live server. They aren't supposed to.

The argument here is not to fix BLU for balance; the issue is BLUs wanting to be more powerful and the entirety of the posts address areas where BLUs "may" fall short, while ignoring areas were BLU have a clear advantage over other jobs.

[Yugl]

If you go back to when I first mentioned these spells, it was that until content was added (such as NMs who can put 6+ shadows up) or Magian trials, Diaga and Poisonga had no purpose. Being given a purpose now does not mean that they were always useful.

Well first off, you're lying or unaware of the purpose pre-TOAU. Just a few instances of Diaga and Poisonga serving purposes:
- Ballista (Very common back then and these spells were useful for combating the popular sub NIN)
- Ninja mobs in general (High haste did not exist back then, so AOEs were viable means of handling Ninja mobs)
- Occultation off particular Empties
- Train links off another PT member
- Gather multiple PHs (Remember, very few had access to WS then)
- Farming applications

The argument I was countering was that BLU spells never had a purpose and are therefore a waste of data space. Protect/Shell 1-3 are a waste of data space because they no longer have a purpose; just like tier 1 nukes, and diaga, and poisonga, etc. Having magically stumbled upon a use in 2010 doesn't mean they magically became useful from 2002-2010.

True, developing a use later does not mean the use existed prior. Your example is quite the inverse of this thought though. The spells of previous tiers (ex: Protect) served a purpose prior and no longer serve that purpose. The tier one nukes, diaga, poisonga, and others did (And technically still do) serve a purpose, so they're not comparable to a spell that never served a purpose. That said, even if such a spell existed, why would you support the implementation of a spell that serves no purpose?

You can't use the 2002-2012 argument of "well spells used to be useful but now they suck" (pro-fix) without also accepting the fact that some spells used to have no use and now they do (my position). You can't ignore the mechanics of the game as a whole while addressing that the test server doesn't match the live server. They aren't supposed to.

Quite frankly, this paragraph makes no sense. Consider rephrasing without rhetoric. You're saying I cannot address the fact that the test and real server do not match while ignoring the mechanics of the game. Yet, the very issue I point out is related to mechanics. Specifically, the magic accuracy of a set of spells and weapon skills. If the battle mechanics (i.e. those not related to issues of access and acquisition) are different, then players cannot feasibly test features of the game. You need to explain why the battle mechanics of the real server "shouldn't" match the test server because intending for there to be differences between the real and test server is quite contradictory to the idea of "testing."

Blue Mage gets modified versions of the monsters spells, SE kinda of stated this years ago. For this reason I'm only speaking about the BLU versions as most monsters versions would be stupidly broken for a BLU to use.

To the above people saying the "test server and real server are different", you don't think SE knows this? You think that if they wanted Torbillion to have regular magic acc they would of copied that over when they implemented it? The production server is ~always~ the "correct" version, development servers are just that, for development.

It's now boiled down to a few people crying of very minor things they see as problems and saying that Blue "needs fixing" because of that.

You can keep on arguing but it won't change SE's position. Your own position has already been self defeated the moment you referenced the development server as being "right".

You're not SE and SE hasn't made an official announcement regarding this issue, so unless you're suggesting you're psychic (Which will carry another set of criticisms), step aside Ms. Cleo. If SE intends for Tourbillion to have reduced accuracy, they should make the test server reflect this as well. After all, with all other ninja nerfs, the test server has reflected that as well. So why should this be different?

As for the production server always being correct, that means you're saying the production server was correct when cures did 9999999999999 damage and the development server did not reflect that change. It seems you're trumped by your own argument. You would do well not to rephrase my argument because you tend to do so poorly. Nowhere did I state that the main server was the correct server. Neither can be stated as the intended effect until SE says so themselves. That said, the preliminary evidence supports the test server's results more favorably because the issue is sporadic (No consistency between weapons affected) and deviant from the existing situation.

Edit: I'm not sure how you managed to miss Mavrick's point. You're either feigning ignorance or simply incapable of consistency. He wasn't saying that BLU's 5% should mirror the BST version. He's saying that BST have a 33% defense down with high magic accuracy. Thus, countering your belief that such an incredible defense down must coincide magic accuracy difficulties.

[Afania]

where is prothescar when you need him....

I think he's inactive(I think), and you can't post if you're inactive.