To Devs: Fix Blu

[Kysaiana]

If something is "broken" as in "doesn't work on anything ever" it should be fixed no? Gooey Gerard's Corrosive Oose is also 33% def down. Now, I have no idea if this ever lands on "hard" content but suffice to say it probably lands on too weak mobs. Tachi: Ageha is 30% def down but of course that also doesn't land on the normal servers either.

These add. effects should be subject to resists of course, but something sightly higher than 0% acc on anything seems reasonable, especially since SE never said they're working as intended on the real servers.

[saevel]

If something is "broken" as in "doesn't work on anything ever" it should be fixed no? Gooey Gerard's Corrosive Oose is also 33% def down. Now, I have no idea if this ever lands on "hard" content but suffice to say it probably lands on too weak mobs. Tachi: Ageha is 30% def down but of course that also doesn't land on the normal servers either.

These add. effects should be subject to resists of course, but something sightly higher than 0% acc on anything seems reasonable, especially since SE never said they're working as intended on the real servers.

Corrosive Ooze is 5% attack down / 5% defense down not 33% def down, has regular MA/ME.
Tachi: Ageha is a 25% defense down with floored MA/ME
Bilgestorm is 25% attack down, 25% defense down 10 accuracy down and has regular MA/ME though each effect can be resisted separately.
Auroral Drape is -60 accuracy and use's regular MA/ME, though it's a magic type spell and doesn't form many useful combinations.
Barbed Crescent is -30 accuracy and has floored MA, it's used to make Dual Wield III.

It's not that things like Barbed Cresent / Torbillion never land, that is hyperbole. It's that their magic acc is floored such that they rarely land. From SE's point of view it's a gamble, your taking a chance and hoping for "luck" (where else have we seen that), which is utter BS of course. Most of these spells have some sort of axillary use, either now or when they were introduced, typically as a set combo. BC also happens to deal moderate damage for it's MP cost (52MP).

Now it would be nice and full of unicorns if SE could *fix* it so that every BLU spell did *something* but that would have two side effects. First being to push Blue Mage over the OP line which would entail non-BLU's gnashing their teeth and result in an eventual nerf. Go take a look at everyone complaining about BST's TH pet and what that resulted in. Second would be to take developer resources away from things that actually need fixing, like the enmity system or enemy NM's spamming aoe slaughter moves. There is a huge list of things that need *fixed* and Blue Mage is near the very bottom of that list, right next to MNK, WAR, DRK and SAM (though SE seems to always throw cool sh1t at SAM).

The only two aspects that stand out as WTF are voidwatch procs and some BLU buffs sh!ty duration (T.Roar I'm staring at you). Roar's low duration I could deal with if the spell had a 0.5s cast time, but currently it's really not worth using. Should be 120s and call it a day.

[Yugl]

Barbed Cresent isn't broken, it has a use. It makes Dual Wield III.

If the spell isn't broken, then why do the test server and real server have different magic accuracy levels?

Tourbillion is one of those spells that if it worked, then BLU would shortly be nerfed. It's -33% Defense down which is BEYOND broken.

You admit that the spell is broken, so why bother argue? The fact that there is a discrepancy between the main server and the test server means one of them applies the incorrect magic accuracy. If you want to cry about the significance of the effect, then do so after the blatant glitch has been remedied.

Right now what I keep seeing is people complaining because some minor spell is sh1t and they want all 100+ Blue Magic spells to be useful and functional.

Yes, spells should be functional. A spell that says "Inflicts fire damage and bestows Haste upon the caster" should do just that. Why the hell would we want to play a game where the description is a blatant lie?

I'm sorry but that's OP, if everyone BLU had worked "the way it should" then SE would nerf the sh1t out of this job. Tell me one area that Blue Mage can't be a bad ass in? The only two I can think of are primary DD during a 60s super zerg fight, and primary healer for legion type super events.

Looking past the rhetoric of your post, your argument is quite bland. You essentially say "The discrepancy between the test and real server isn't indicative of a glitch because the class is overpowered." You do realize the glaring flaw with your argument right? Whether the description accuracy captures the effect of the spell is irrelevant to whether the class is overpowered. Moreover, you're overlooking the obvious fact that non-BLU weapon skills are affected. So your "great" response falls flat in virtue of the fact that other classes are subject to magic accuracy deficiency despite them lacking the utilities and damage of BLU.

Edit: And lets be clear here. Even if the description is correct, the fact that the test server and real server entail different levels of magic accuracy automatically indicates one of them is glitched. If SE intends for these spells to have reduced magic accuracy, then the test server should reflect that. What is the point of the test server if the battle mechanics vastly differ from the real server?

[Llana_Virren]

Diaga is utilized even at 99 (ex: Odin v2 adds, gather mobs for magian trials, or generic gathering of mobs), so how you manage to classify diaga as a "purposeless" spell is questionable.

If you go back to when I first mentioned these spells, it was that until content was added (such as NMs who can put 6+ shadows up) or Magian trials, Diaga and Poisonga had no purpose. Being given a purpose now does not mean that they were always useful.

The argument I was countering was that BLU spells never had a purpose and are therefore a waste of data space. Protect/Shell 1-3 are a waste of data space because they no longer have a purpose; just like tier 1 nukes, and diaga, and poisonga, etc. Having magically stumbled upon a use in 2010 doesn't mean they magically became useful from 2002-2010.

You can't use the 2002-2012 argument of "well spells used to be useful but now they suck" (pro-fix) without also accepting the fact that some spells used to have no use and now they do (my position). You can't ignore the mechanics of the game as a whole while addressing that the test server doesn't match the live server. They aren't supposed to.

The argument here is not to fix BLU for balance; the issue is BLUs wanting to be more powerful and the entirety of the posts address areas where BLUs "may" fall short, while ignoring areas were BLU have a clear advantage over other jobs.

[Mavrick]

Corrosive Ooze is 5% attack down / 5% defense down not 33% def down, has regular MA/ME.
.

Just a little correction here but...
There are 2 versions of Corrosive Ooze. Blue Mage version and BST's version which they get access to via Gooey Gerard.
Blue Mage gets the gimp 5% version. BST gets the superior version which is ATK/DEF-33% with a max duration of 90 seconds (3 mins recast). I've yet to see Corrosive Ooze fail on anything that is not naturally resistant to enfeebles and considering that Gooey Gerard's Purulent Ooze (Max HP-10%) sticks with high accuracy even on NMs in Hall of Ki I'm willing to bet Ooze is just as potent.

[saevel]

Just a little correction here but...
There are 2 versions of Corrosive Ooze. Blue Mage version and BST's version which they get access to via Gooey Gerard.
Blue Mage gets the gimp 5% version. BST gets the superior version which is ATK/DEF-33% with a max duration of 90 seconds (3 mins recast). I've yet to see Corrosive Ooze fail on anything that is not naturally resistant to enfeebles and considering that Gooey Gerard's Purulent Ooze (Max HP-10%) sticks with high accuracy even on NMs in Hall of Ki I'm willing to bet Ooze is just as potent.

Blue Mage gets modified versions of the monsters spells, SE kinda of stated this years ago. For this reason I'm only speaking about the BLU versions as most monsters versions would be stupidly broken for a BLU to use.

To the above people saying the "test server and real server are different", you don't think SE knows this? You think that if they wanted Torbillion to have regular magic acc they would of copied that over when they implemented it? The production server is ~always~ the "correct" version, development servers are just that, for development.

It's now boiled down to a few people crying of very minor things they see as problems and saying that Blue "needs fixing" because of that.

You can keep on arguing but it won't change SE's position. Your own position has already been self defeated the moment you referenced the development server as being "right".

[Yugl]

If you go back to when I first mentioned these spells, it was that until content was added (such as NMs who can put 6+ shadows up) or Magian trials, Diaga and Poisonga had no purpose. Being given a purpose now does not mean that they were always useful.

Well first off, you're lying or unaware of the purpose pre-TOAU. Just a few instances of Diaga and Poisonga serving purposes:
- Ballista (Very common back then and these spells were useful for combating the popular sub NIN)
- Ninja mobs in general (High haste did not exist back then, so AOEs were viable means of handling Ninja mobs)
- Occultation off particular Empties
- Train links off another PT member
- Gather multiple PHs (Remember, very few had access to WS then)
- Farming applications

The argument I was countering was that BLU spells never had a purpose and are therefore a waste of data space. Protect/Shell 1-3 are a waste of data space because they no longer have a purpose; just like tier 1 nukes, and diaga, and poisonga, etc. Having magically stumbled upon a use in 2010 doesn't mean they magically became useful from 2002-2010.

True, developing a use later does not mean the use existed prior. Your example is quite the inverse of this thought though. The spells of previous tiers (ex: Protect) served a purpose prior and no longer serve that purpose. The tier one nukes, diaga, poisonga, and others did (And technically still do) serve a purpose, so they're not comparable to a spell that never served a purpose. That said, even if such a spell existed, why would you support the implementation of a spell that serves no purpose?

You can't use the 2002-2012 argument of "well spells used to be useful but now they suck" (pro-fix) without also accepting the fact that some spells used to have no use and now they do (my position). You can't ignore the mechanics of the game as a whole while addressing that the test server doesn't match the live server. They aren't supposed to.

Quite frankly, this paragraph makes no sense. Consider rephrasing without rhetoric. You're saying I cannot address the fact that the test and real server do not match while ignoring the mechanics of the game. Yet, the very issue I point out is related to mechanics. Specifically, the magic accuracy of a set of spells and weapon skills. If the battle mechanics (i.e. those not related to issues of access and acquisition) are different, then players cannot feasibly test features of the game. You need to explain why the battle mechanics of the real server "shouldn't" match the test server because intending for there to be differences between the real and test server is quite contradictory to the idea of "testing."

Blue Mage gets modified versions of the monsters spells, SE kinda of stated this years ago. For this reason I'm only speaking about the BLU versions as most monsters versions would be stupidly broken for a BLU to use.

To the above people saying the "test server and real server are different", you don't think SE knows this? You think that if they wanted Torbillion to have regular magic acc they would of copied that over when they implemented it? The production server is ~always~ the "correct" version, development servers are just that, for development.

It's now boiled down to a few people crying of very minor things they see as problems and saying that Blue "needs fixing" because of that.

You can keep on arguing but it won't change SE's position. Your own position has already been self defeated the moment you referenced the development server as being "right".

You're not SE and SE hasn't made an official announcement regarding this issue, so unless you're suggesting you're psychic (Which will carry another set of criticisms), step aside Ms. Cleo. If SE intends for Tourbillion to have reduced accuracy, they should make the test server reflect this as well. After all, with all other ninja nerfs, the test server has reflected that as well. So why should this be different?

As for the production server always being correct, that means you're saying the production server was correct when cures did 9999999999999 damage and the development server did not reflect that change. It seems you're trumped by your own argument. You would do well not to rephrase my argument because you tend to do so poorly. Nowhere did I state that the main server was the correct server. Neither can be stated as the intended effect until SE says so themselves. That said, the preliminary evidence supports the test server's results more favorably because the issue is sporadic (No consistency between weapons affected) and deviant from the existing situation.

Edit: I'm not sure how you managed to miss Mavrick's point. You're either feigning ignorance or simply incapable of consistency. He wasn't saying that BLU's 5% should mirror the BST version. He's saying that BST have a 33% defense down with high magic accuracy. Thus, countering your belief that such an incredible defense down must coincide magic accuracy difficulties.

[saevel]

As for the production server always being correct, that means you're saying the production server was correct when cures did 9999999999999 damage and the development server did not reflect that change.

Which was patched in an emergency maintenance shortly thereafter. It's been how many months now? Torbillion has never had high magic accuracy on production server, if SE wanted it then they would of already. On the development server I can give myself 300,000,000 gil, I can't do that on the production server, so obviously there is a big where the moogle isn't offering me that option.

Torbillion / BC (and others) low potency and / or accuracy isn't a glitch or a bug, it's intentional or as the Dev's used to say "Working as Intended".

And seriously LULZ at your BST argument. The pet has to get TP first and won't be alive long enough on any content where you'd actually use the 33% def down effects. BLU on the other hand can do that once per 5min. Is a 25% def down / 25% attack down effect not good enough for you?

[Llana_Virren]

Stuff that I shortened to keep the post short

The problem is that the "purposes" were few, if ever used. We're talking about when most (read as:virtually all) melees were /nin dual wielders, especially WAR/nin. By the time the already-quick-casting Diaga went off, the shadows were already gone.
Perhaps your experiences were a little worse for wear but aside from finishing CoP missions we didn't linger around the Empties.
I mean this as respectfully as I can, but the only purpose for ballista is to waste peoples time, so... quoting that will in my mind totally negate any argument... unless the argument was to kill ballista.

Bottom line is that you shouldn't be quoting the difference between live and test server mechanics. I said this quite some posts ago... the test server is to test things, so the mechanics and attributes of things are changed and are not true to the live servers. And adjustments made to one do not inherently have to be applied to the other.

For example, you could enhance Berserk on the test server to be a 50% bonus to ATK. Does that mean the live server is wrong? No. Adjustments made to the test server are made to either a) see how it affects current content and playstyle based on recorded experience, or b) prepare the test server for newer content and test for balancing... for all you know other BLU spells maybe be weakened on the live server (but not on the test server) if it is found to be the best way to "balance" some new content.

BLU is weak in some areas, sure. Some spells just don't "make sense." But not every spell needs to be relevant or keep its relevance in end-game content. As a (former-) RDM, I say make Paralyze, Slow, Blind, Bind, Gravity, Addle and others relevant before even thinking about touching BLU spells. BLUs are already one of, if not the most versatile, survivable and powerful jobs in the game. The entire premise behind this thread has been how to make BLU more powerful and not a single whimper has been made about what you would be willing to give up for it.

[Yugl]

Which was patched in an emergency maintenance shortly thereafter. It's been how many months now? Torbillion has never had high magic accuracy on production server, if SE wanted it then they would of already.

Just because SE can fix a problem, that doesn't mean they do immediately. The Salvage bans (Roughly a yr before action) and recent locking nerfs should sufficiently indicate that. Furthermore, they may not understand what causes the deficiency either. Recall that Meeble Burrow's glitch took weeks before they could patch the random crashes.

On the development server I can give myself 300,000,000 gil, I can't do that on the production server, so obviously there is a big where the moogle isn't offering me that option.

If the battle mechanics (i.e. those not related to issues of access and acquisition) are different, then players cannot feasibly test features of the game.

Show me how acquiring 100mil from the server doesn't constitute acquisition and does constitute a battle mechanic.

Torbillion / BC (and others) low potency and / or accuracy isn't a glitch or a bug, it's intentional or as the Dev's used to say "Working as Intended".

Where did they state this? Or is this more Ms.Cleo talk you're offering?

And seriously LULZ at your BST argument. The pet has to get TP first and won't be alive long enough on any content where you'd actually use the 33% def down effects. BLU on the other hand can do that once per 5min. Is a 25% def down / 25% attack down effect not good enough for you?

Any well constructed group and half-decent BST can manage to keep the pet up and have enough TP to perform said TP move. The fact that you think otherwise indicates that you play the respective class poorly or play with a poorly constructed group.

The problem is that the "purposes" were few, if ever used. We're talking about when most (read as:virtually all) melees were /nin dual wielders, especially WAR/nin. By the time the already-quick-casting Diaga went off, the shadows were already gone.

Your server either sponsored terrible Ballista matches or you never paid attention. The purpose of diaga is to enable close-range attacks on a distant foe without wasting attack rounds. Shadows don't just drop by themselves and dual-wielding only offers two reliable attacks. When the opponent sports 3-4 shadows, quick means of removal (Diaga and Poisonga) are optimal. The more you linger within enemy territory, the more opportunity you create for gate-breach.

Perhaps your experiences were a little worse for wear but aside from finishing CoP missions we didn't linger around the Empties.
I mean this as respectfully as I can, but the only purpose for ballista is to waste peoples time, so... quoting that will in my mind totally negate any argument... unless the argument was to kill ballista.

Ballista was popular for end game players because of the limited EG opportunities. Between Dynamis, Sky, and Ground Kings, the only one without an exaggerated wait was sky. Even that had limitations with respect to NM respawns. Aside from meriting, Ballista was one of the few alternatives for players that didn't require a dedicated large-scale group.

Ballista defense aside, you only managed to engage two out of five points. I'll take your silence as admission that said applications were relevant.

I said this quite some posts ago... the test server is to test things, so the mechanics and attributes of things are changed and are not true to the live servers. And adjustments made to one do not inherently have to be applied to the other.

If the purpose is to test content, then mirroring the battle mechanics best contributes to said tests. If SE gives us Abyssea level stats to test content, then the results are quite meaningless if said stats don't replicate on the real server.

For example, you could enhance Berserk on the test server to be a 50% bonus to ATK. Does that mean the live server is wrong? No. Adjustments made to the test server are made to either a) see how it affects current content and playstyle based on recorded experience, or b) prepare the test server for newer content and test for balancing... for all you know other BLU spells maybe be weakened on the live server (but not on the test server) if it is found to be the best way to "balance" some new content.

This ignores a critical component about the test server: The test server often updates to match the real server's battle mechanics post-update. Remember when Meteor was cast without ES? That feature is no longer present. However, these magic accuracy deficiencies have persisted over multiple update.

BLU is weak in some areas, sure. Some spells just don't "make sense." But not every spell needs to be relevant or keep its relevance in end-game content. As a (former-) RDM, I say make Paralyze, Slow, Blind, Bind, Gravity, Addle and others relevant before even thinking about touching BLU spells. BLUs are already one of, if not the most versatile, survivable and powerful jobs in the game. The entire premise behind this thread has been how to make BLU more powerful and not a single whimper has been made about what you would be willing to give up for it.

This is all irrelevant since the issue transcends BLU in particular. Take a look at these weapon skills:

-Tachi: Ageha (Add. effect: Defense down)
-Metatron Torment (Add. effect: Defense down)
-Onslaught (Add. effect: Accuracy down)
-Full Break (Add. effect: Accuracy, Attack, Defense, and Evasion down)
-Armor Break (Add. effect: Defense down)
-Shell Crusher (Add. effect: Defense down)
-Randgrith (Add. effect: Evasion down)
-Nightmare Scythe (Add. effect: Blind)
-Skullbreaker (Add. effect: INT down)

Three of them are relic weapon skills and none of them apply solely to BLU. So if the issue you pose is "But they would be overpowered!", then you're lacking the keen observation skills necessary to see that this applies to classes other than BLU. You also lack the observation skills necessary to see that an ability being glitched is independent of whether the applying class is overpowered. A DRK being overpowered within a zerg situation doesn't mean RCB giving an attack penalty isn't a glitch. Neither does BLU being "overpowered" outside of a zerg situation mean floored magic accuracy discrepancies aren't a glitches either.