Fast leveling in Parties - hot spots

[Meyi]

Back when it was like how I mentioned above, people actually learned how to play their jobs correctly and learned them well.

No they didn't. There were plenty of gimp 75s running around then who are still running around gimp today.

[Bloodrain]

No they didn't. There were plenty of gimp 75s running around then who are still running around gimp today.

Of course there will be those people who suck in both periods of time, but there are far more today due to the fact that people aren't learning their roles. Stick anyone who leveled a job from 1-99 on these fast tracks and someone who leveled a job pre-abyssea and see who knows their roles better. I was simply making an observation that pre-abyssea leveling allowed the majority of the player base to learn their jobs instead of running around with keys until 99 and then wondering what all their job abilities do and are used for..

[Arcon]

Of course there will be those people who suck in both periods of time, but there are far more today due to the fact that people aren't learning their roles.

That horse is deader than RDM. You learned nothing relevant in old EXP parties. No one who leveled to 75 the old way knew how to play their jobs. You learn that stuff in endgame, same as now. All everyone did was spam WS, tanks spammed Provoke, mages spammed cures. That's not playing your job. The things that define how good you are at your job simply do not happen in EXP parties, so it's impossible to learn there. Crowd control, dealing with crippling status effects and various types of area moves, MP management over a long period of time, efficient gear swaps, managing timers and stacking abilities, dealing with death of alliance members and god knows what else.

None of that is even remotely important during EXP parties. If people die, you raise them and wait until they unweak. If the mage ran out of MP, you rested and waited until they were good to go. The very idea of EXPing was to pick the mobs that were easiest to deal with, that's why you killed a million crabs and birds until you got to 75. You didn't fight dragons, corses, wyrms, behemoths, and everything else that will fuck you up at endgame. It is literally impossible to prepare for endgame through EXP, and it has always been.

The only thing that differentiates good players from bad ones is experience (actual experience doing relevant events) and intelligence. EXP parties contribute to neither. Neither then nor now.

[Meyi]

Of course there will be those people who suck in both periods of time, but there are far more today due to the fact that people aren't learning their roles. Stick anyone who leveled a job from 1-99 on these fast tracks and someone who leveled a job pre-abyssea and see who knows their roles better. I was simply making an observation that pre-abyssea leveling allowed the majority of the player base to learn their jobs instead of running around with keys until 99 and then wondering what all their job abilities do and are used for..

Nope. The only difference between today and many years ago is that people gave up before they reached 70 -- it was a much more grueling task to reach end level.

[Amaroq]

Even the producer said he wants to make it even easier to obtain level 99... They are really setting up this game to be full of idiots who don't know how to play their jobs. (Aside from those of us who already know)

Im one of those new players, im not the brightest out there but dont consider myself to be an idiot. I want to play it the old school way but its difficult to find others who are interested in the missions and questing together. I find these mass leveling alliances are a way to get to a level where i can solo missions...but id rather level at a slower pase while doing missions and quests with normal party of 3 or 4. Each knowing and strategically using their job roles as efficiently as possible...thats more fun to me.

I just managed to get into a LS last night with some other new players...hopefully that will work out and ill find a good party from it who will want to play the game like i do.

Ultimately the game has changed and is not geared towards new players anymore, the producer sees this. If a new player cant find a good LS these mass leveling alliances are just a work around, rather than for idiots who dont want to play the game properly.

[Demon6324236]

The game is built around level 99s, before then you are stuck in all old content no one does anymore, why leave players in areas that are old and abandoned rather than allowing them a faster track to the place where everyone else is actually doing things.

[ScreamingInDigital]

The game is built around level 99s, before then you are stuck in all old content no one does anymore, why leave players in areas that are old and abandoned rather than allowing them a faster track to the place where everyone else is actually doing things.

Maybe so they can actually get to experience the content you already did in a manner similar to how you did? You're attempting to qualify the value of content from the perspective of someone who's already been through it, as it's intended to be completed (e.g. at the intended level, in a group, etc), and is now several years, and many levels beyond it.

Easily soloing through most/all of CoP is not the same experience as actually having to fight through it with a party at or near the intended level. Or Zilart, or Aht Urghan or WoTG for that matter.

If you read around forums enough, you'll find there's a lot of people (on different servers, etc), who would actually like to go through the content more the way everyone else did "back in the day". The problem is, now that all the vets have "been there and done that", they have a completely dismissive view about it all, and the advice they're giving is very much like yours. They're being told "Everything is about end-game now", and "Just blast through to level 99 and get all your end-game gear. Then you can go back and solo the old content if you want".

Newer players are listening because they don't know any better and would likely figure "well, they know the game better than I do..."

"Yeah, there's 8+ years of content, including 5 epic storylines with great characters, cool encounters, awesome cut-scenes and some pretty tough battles... but that's all old and obsolete. So, just power level past it, get to 99 and then go through it on Mickey Mouse Mode". What a way to gyp new players the experience of going through some great content. At the very least, the "advice" of soloing it at 99 is diminishing the experience significantly.

Just because "most people are at end-game now", doesn't mean newer players have to be there "right now" as well - especially at the expense of skipping past or trivializing lots of great content before that. The game may be "all about end game" to you/vets. That doesn't mean it should be to newer players. I'd argue that end game should be the last thing a newer player is focused on in FFXI.

I said this in another post/thread, but I'll say it again here: It amazes me how easily and willingly vet players pass their cynicism about this game on to new players who are eager and excited to play; how readily they'll tell people to just skip past all the content they got to experience over the past decade.

Here's a thought... how about encouraging people to experience it. How about saying "You know, there's some amazing content in this game before level cap. Some great stories and expansion content. CoP in particular has been considered one of the best individual FF stories ever by some. You should really try to experience that "at level" as much as possible. The end-game will be there when ever you get to it, and likely with a lot more than what's there now."

Here's an even crazier idea - that I know is going to make some foam at the mouth - how about offering to group up with people, level-synch down and help them get through the content? You have nothing at stake. You're completely capped on your jobs and, presumably, your skills. So what's the harm? Believe me, I know as I'm typing it that people in this game going back to help newer players with content you've already completed would be a sure sign of the apocalypse. From what I've seen, the mantra of "What? Nothing in it for me personally? Pfft... forget it. Not interested" is alive and well in FFXI.

SE provides this amazing game that can be just as awesome to new players as it was to vets when they were on their way up... but they're being told to just race past it.

[Arcon]

I said this in another post/thread, but I'll say it again here: It amazes me how easily and willingly vet players pass their cynicism about this game on to new players who are eager and excited to play; how readily they'll tell people to just skip past all the content they got to experience over the past decade.

Amazing.

The only amazing thing about it is how much you missed the point. No one wants to keep them from experiencing CoP the old way. The problem is, it's nearly impossible now with a cap. Uncapping it was the only reasonable thing to do to get new players through it at all.

Second, EXP is an entirely different animal from missions, don't group them together. It's not that we don't want new people to experience old EXP, it's that we think it's better for them if they don't. I disliked it so much, if I could purge the memories of me wasting weekend after weekend doing boring crap just so I could be high enough to do events with my linkshell, I'd gladly do it.

[Luvbunny]

The new way of leveling may be extremely fast for a lot of people to a point where they barely know their roles or what the jobs suppose to do. But on the flip side, the whole game has changed. What used to be level grind via old school party has become level grind for gearing your characters via endgame activities which range from extremely casual to hardcore. You now must be able to work either solo or duo trio, when you start farming your abysea gears, or working in alliance for Voidwatch events which is rather on the casual side (other than cure bomb and status removal, you pretty much there to spam proc WS and proc spells). Then there are the fun activities such as meeble burrows where you need to work together, or neo nyzul. And finally the big one such as Legion and Neo Einherjar. In any case, learning how to play your jobs is now done via solo or small party, which for me force you to learn more and be quick since you are no longer in the safe comfort zone of 6 people old school party. And like others have mentioned, why torture players with level grind to 99 when the actual grind begin at 95-99.

[nyheen]

dont know about you guys but the new lvling way is really boring to me. just like the people was saying about the challenge,fun & stuff but now it seems people just fight easy all day at lvl 20 cap then once lvl 30, "time to key/leech" up to 99, ya i bet that fun, least back then we was moving camp to camp being around our skill lvl.

almost the same like key/leeching 4 years of high school just to get the diploma. ya forget the all the fun that you could of had (dances,first date, fights,having fun with friends, etc) just give me that diploma!