Interim Report – Sorry to keep you all waiting!

[Ceinwyn]

You are aware that you are defending old EXP, right? Because you saying that is absurd in every conceivable way.

Why? Because u think, just because endgame is as time consuming as the old exp it has to be at the same level of entertainment or that endgame is more exciting than a valkurm dunes party? Sry for me it isn't.
I'm sorry but I can enjoy a decent valkurm dunes party more than a voidwach run as long as it is meaningful, these days it isn't because of abyssea.
However, most people who like the old FFXI won't post here because u need an actice account to do so and when mine is finished I won't look back again either, so nobody should be that suprised that there seems to be a majority on the side of the questionable actual playerbase, just as a kind of note for everyone here thinking he is he majority ~.~

[Caketime]

Arcon does not represent the opinions of the community at large. Hell, sometimes he completely abandons his own opinions out of convenience.

[vienne]

OMG thats me when i'm playing \o/ my bf loves ffxi cause i get all the ironing done

[Wystan]

When i first started playing xi the end-game sounded amazing. I was reading about cop and sky. That the fights were tactical and long not some mass zerg and tp spam fest. I started playing slowly leveling never got many parties as my tp feeding mnk was considered sub par. After a long time i made it to end game void watch boy was that a cluster f... If they could sort out tanking and aoe mass death tp, try and make the fights longer less insta death and more like the offline ff bosses i'd be a happy bunny.
Or a decent quest line that would of better prepared me for end-game. I was lucky i was in a good shell that didn't mind dragging me through content.

[Demon6324236]

Yes, and we all learned back in 1985 with Super Mario Bros. that we didn't need to repeatedly jump, evade, get fire flower, shoot fireballs for 85% of the game in order to find it fun and amusing. All we needed was 8 Bowsers to have a complete game. Gee, I wonder what developers were thinking??!

Salvage pops you at the boss at the start right? Nyzul starts you at floor 100 staring down the boss too? Limbus lets you start fighting Arch-Ultima and Arch-Omega without doing the basement areas too, and lets not forget how Odin lets you jump right to him without bothering with the other areas of Einherjar. VW throws you right in Prov, Legion lets you start at Mul wave 3, don't make you fight the 'mini-bosses' or anything for progression either.

In case you misunderstand the point of this post, I am trying to say that we are not just jumping to bosses, there is a form of progression still. Legion and VW are the worst of examples, as everything is basically a mini-boss of sorts till the end, however Salvage, Nyzul, Limbus, they are all filled with lv99 normal progression mobs, Einherjar got a fail update in its amount of content, and only has level 75 trash mobs I think, but there is still a form of progression.

[Eyeballed]

Salvage pops you at the boss at the start right? Nyzul starts you at floor 100 staring down the boss too? Limbus lets you start fighting Arch-Ultima and Arch-Omega without doing the basement areas too, and lets not forget how Odin lets you jump right to him without bothering with the other areas of Einherjar. VW throws you right in Prov, Legion lets you start at Mul wave 3, don't make you fight the 'mini-bosses' or anything for progression either.

In case you misunderstand the point of this post, I am trying to say that we are not just jumping to bosses, there is a form of progression still. Legion and VW are the worst of examples, as everything is basically a mini-boss of sorts till the end, however Salvage, Nyzul, Limbus, they are all filled with lv99 normal progression mobs, Einherjar got a fail update in its amount of content, and only has level 75 trash mobs I think, but there is still a form of progression.

Okay, allow me to reiterate that statement: All we needed was stages 1-4, 2-4, 3-4, 4-4, 5-4, 6-4, 7-4 and 8-4. So instead of 32 stages, we get a mere 8. A bit closer, but still no cigar.

[Arcon]

Trust me, the feeling's mutual. And the whole point in having a debate/conversation is to gain understanding and unfortunately all I've gathered is exactly what you've said in that the grind is boring and therefore unnecessary. I'm sorry, "It's boring and I hate it because it's boring." will never be a good reason to not do anything.

Not to do what exactly? What is it you think I want? I wasn't giving reasons not to anything, or to do anything for that matter. People just like to read things into what I say, and all I'm saying is that the sole reason I dislike it is that it is boring.

Excuse me sir, what planet do you live on? Because it sure as hell isn't Earth.

Excuse me, Sir, read up and shut up.

Yes, and we all learned back in 1985 with Super Mario Bros. that we didn't need to repeatedly jump, evade, get fire flower, shoot fireballs for 85% of the game in order to find it fun and amusing. All we needed was 8 Bowsers to have a complete game. Gee, I wonder what developers were thinking??!

Of course the boss battles are the most fun and engaging part of the game with their drops/rewards the sweetest of all, but you cannot make a game comprised of entirely that! If you DO, then you have NO REASON for an open world, and at the same time a game full of sidegrade/modest upgrade rewards because tossing out more difficult enemies for which to suffice their existence is not something developers just casually do! So instead of the old grind, what you now have is the new grind and a .001 chance of getting that next sidegrade piece of gear! What about this do you NOT understand?!!

You and I have one single disagreement, just one. We both think the journey is more important than the goal, because once you reach the goal, you're finished and can quit the game. The one thing that just doesn't seem to fit into your mithra head is that endgame is not the goal, it is the journey, and the goal doesn't exist. EXP is not the "jumping, evading, getting fire flowers and shooting fireballs", as you describe it. That is endgame. EXP is blowing the dust out of the cartridge because you can't get the game to start.

Not wanting EXP does not have anything even remotely to do with sidegrades and low drop rates. That's your newest excuse in a long line of absurdly flawed implications with little to no reason provided for why it would actually happen.

Why? Because u think, just because endgame is as time consuming as the old exp it has to be at the same level of entertainment or that endgame is more exciting than a valkurm dunes party? Sry for me it isn't.

I don't even know what the hell you're talking about, but what I was referring to was this:

Probably but endgame in FFXI is just too time consuming and not even that exciting.

You think endgame is time consuming. You think endgame is not exciting. Hence, you don't like endgame.
EXP is time consuming. EXP is not exciting. Yet, you like EXP?

You make no sense.

Okay, allow me to reiterate that statement: All we needed was stages 1-4, 2-4, 3-4, 4-4, 5-4, 6-4, 7-4 and 8-4. So instead of 32 stages, we get a mere 8. A bit closer, but still no cigar.

While I replied to that retarded metaphor earlier already, let me phrase it this way: Mario was fun, all the time. EXP is not, ever. Hence your analogy fails as bad as every other argument you ever tried to pull out of your ass.

[Eyeballed]

Not to do what exactly? What is it you think I want? I wasn't giving reasons not to anything, or to do anything for that matter. People just like to read things into what I say, and all I'm saying is that the sole reason I dislike it is that it is boring.

Because you find it boring does not, in any way, make it unnecessary. The grind will exist, because it has to, in some shape form or fashion if the MMO is to survive. Your way of thinking will destroy the open world, lock everything in an instance, stagnate the community and wither away most of what real adventure is left in these games today.

You're not going to change my mind, and I'm not going to change yours.

[FrankReynolds]

Equating my inability to make classic EXP groups with your inability to organize a mission run would be to say "I couldn't get the mission started because 99% of those who could go with me were already doing it."

Ummm no. You implied that you were far better than me at forming groups. Although you have yet to disclose exactly what it is that you would have done that would have caused people to join your group. I suspect that is because there is nothing you could have done.

My point was that a person who is super awesome at forming groups shouldn't be on a forum complaining about how hard it is to form groups. You have two options here.

A) you are in fact shitty at forming groups and that is why you cannot complete any of the old school content that you want to do so badly.

or

B) you can't find people to do the content no matter how good you are at organizing groups because there are in fact no peoplle who need / want to do that content.

In case "A" there is no point in changing the game just because you suck at forming groups. In case "B" there is no point in changing the game because no one wants it changed. Take your pick. Do you want to be the guy who sucks at forming groups but loves to tell everyone how awesome he is at it? Or do you want to be the guy who tries to force people to play with him? Personally I think that you are both guys.

[Demon6324236]

The grind will exist

It still does, people simply seem to prefer a grind for gear rather than a grind for experience points.