Intelligent Casting Attachment

[Toadie-Odie]

So you want something like the FFXII Gambit System for PUP...?

Okay, my response is coming from a long time lover of BST so all you PUPs out please don't kill me if I'm off base here. Yes, I have leveled PUP to 99 but I really just like BST more.

And this is why:

* The automaton is a puppet that is built, customized, and controled. This concept is brought in during the PUP flag quest and artifact quests.

*If this magical machine is something that is built, customized, and controled WHY CAN'T I PROGRAM IT TOO? I mean it's a machine for crying out loud. Sentient and self aware, but still a machine. Why can't we get key item AI chips to select like BLU sets spell and assemble them in a priority order?

I don't know if this is what people are talking when they are asking for a gambit system, but I think it's something that could be done since part of the mechanics I've suggested already exist in the game.

I don't know I think it would be fun to program my little guy and let him go to see what he does - kinda like what you do in the old game Carnage Hearts. I really think that is what PUP is missing, the ability to tinker with the puppet's AI with CPU chips or something.

[Glamdring]

Okay, my response is coming from a long time lover of BST so all you PUPs out please don't kill me if I'm off base here. Yes, I have leveled PUP to 99 but I really just like BST more.And this is why:* The automaton is a puppet that is built, customized, and controled. This concept is brought in during the PUP flag quest and artifact quests. *If this magical machine is something that is built, customized, and controled WHY CAN'T I PROGRAM IT TOO? I mean it's a machine for crying out loud. Sentient and self aware, but still a machine. Why can't we get key item AI chips to select like BLU sets spell and assemble them in a priority order? I don't know if this is what people are talking when they are asking for a gambit system, but I think it's something that could be done since part of the mechanics I've suggested already exist in the game. I don't know I think it would be fun to program my little guy and let him go to see what he does - kinda like what you do in the old game Carnage Hearts. I really think that is what PUP is missing, the ability to tinker with the puppet's AI with CPU chips or something.

@Toadie this is indeed what the OP is asking for. It’s not a universal request among pups. Here’s why. The more control given to the master, the more time the master has to spend on control, thus sacrificing time we could be DD/tanking. There are a large number that already complain about the lost 3 seconds/minute from our DD time just to keep manuvers up as it is. This is somewhat a split among pups much the way the melee rdms and casting rdms had a dispuute, although nowhere near as big of a split.

While I agree with you that the blu spell mechanics are in place I don’t think the adaptation to autos is as straightforward as you think. Our auto still has AI. While we can influence trends with manuvers (and the underlying frame/attachments) we have no conscious control of the actual cast, which is a complex series of timers, 12 variable attachment slots (with about 50 possible attachments), 4 possible bodies, 6 heads and 8 manuvers, all of which can be used in any combination. Then, how long is the potential spell list for each permutation? Now factor in the conditional variables; HP, MP, state of buffs, presence of debuffs of master, auto and prey; gear adjustments; scanner feedback, etc. Therefore, if we were to program our autos the shift of 1 attachment or manuver or whatever would require us to redo our entire casting program. Couple that with us not being able to save our auto set-ups and it’s just more complexity than most would ever be willing to put up with.

Personally, the level of algorithm analysis gives me a migraine just trying to think about it. And no matter what, some casting will be stupid. Auto’s will not cast during downtime. I have died a couple times when out with my rdm auto in the following scenario: been fighting undead for awhile, currently, I have Bio 3 and para on me and orange HP, ice, light and dark manuvers up, SS and phalanx are down as pup/dnc; I WS; auto scans that prey will die to a single thunder 4 and so nukes INSTEAD of curing me-dead prey. Now my HP is in the red from DoT, my healing waltz was blocked by para, I have no meds and I’m in a blood aggro area so I don’t dare send auto out to engage something so it might cure me, I don’t have TP for a curing waltz, and I can’t even kneel down to heal due to the DoT; dead. Did auto stupidcast? Yes and no. Ordinarily, a dead mob is a GOOD thing, because it isn’t hitting/casting on me. The real problem here is that autos don’t cast during downtime, if they did, all would be well. It’s programmed tho’ to think in combat terms with no thought to aftermath of the fight, where it does nothing. Honestly, more than a stupid casting fix i think the ability to cast when not in combat would be a bigger upgrade. After all, most jobs that buff do so BEFORE fights instead of waiting for during... and most healers will heal melees during downtime as well.

Now, our blm auto, that’s a whole different kettle of fish. Remember the old days of playing with idiot blms in parties that used tanks, DDs, healers and the like, then some idiot blm casts some AM, pulls hate off the tank and ends up wiping the party because it wasn’t enough to 1-shot the prey? Yeah, that asshat was reincarnated as your spiritreaver head. Pup really isn’t that gifted in the tanking department against a blm that is popping Thunder 5 at every oportunity, having only 2 JA on long timers, whatever we packed in terms of our SJ, our melee damage and the dismiss/recall tactic with this guy. It’s just tricky, and one of the reasons I never really see blm auto used with a soloing pup. Maybe if it would use Dread Spikes first... or if it was given sleep, bind, etc. like a real blm? Otherwise, having it cast tier 4 nukes until the prey can be 1 shot by a tier 5, again, like a real blm, or just holding off until the tank (the master) has established enough hate?

[Toadie-Odie]

While I agree with you that the blu spell mechanics are in place I don’t think the adaptation to autos is as straightforward as you think. Our auto still has AI. While we can influence trends with manuvers (and the underlying frame/attachments) we have no conscious control of the actual cast, which is a complex series of timers, 12 variable attachment slots (with about 50 possible attachments), 4 possible bodies, 6 heads and 8 manuvers, all of which can be used in any combination. Then, how long is the potential spell list for each permutation? Now factor in the conditional variables; HP, MP, state of buffs, presence of debuffs of master, auto and prey; gear adjustments; scanner feedback, etc. Therefore, if we were to program our autos the shift of 1 attachment or manuver or whatever would require us to redo our entire casting program. Couple that with us not being able to save our auto set-ups and it’s just more complexity than most would ever be willing to put up with.

Thank you for breaking that down, because you're right I did think it was a simple thing. And it is simple from a player's perspective to just set chips on a board and see what happens. But for a programmer... in retrospect I think it might prove to be a nightmare. And for those players out there that don't enjoy fiddling around and tinkering with things would set out to find and lynch me because the automan won't do what they thought they told it to do.

Honestly, more than a stupid casting fix i think the ability to cast when not in combat would be a bigger upgrade. After all, most jobs that buff do so BEFORE fights instead of waiting for during... and most healers will heal melees during downtime as well.

You know... I wonder if they could implement a job ability or key item quest that would allow you to give it idle commands?

Now, our blm auto, that’s a whole different kettle of fish. Remember the old days of playing with idiot blms in parties that used tanks, DDs, healers and the like, then some idiot blm casts some AM, pulls hate off the tank and ends up wiping the party because it wasn’t enough to 1-shot the prey? Yeah, that asshat was reincarnated as your spiritreaver head.

That was an awesome analogy and it made my day. lol

Pup really isn’t that gifted in the tanking department against a blm that is popping Thunder 5 at every oportunity, having only 2 JA on long timers, whatever we packed in terms of our SJ, our melee damage and the dismiss/recall tactic with this guy. It’s just tricky, and one of the reasons I never really see blm auto used with a soloing pup.

I have a hard time making the BLM automaton to function well in a low-man party, nevermind solo.

So I guess I will amend my suggestion with a question. How difficult would it be to integrate the option to alter the order of priorities - as in a master list before you place attachments?

For instance, I could have the RDM automaton out and spam Light Manuevars all night but it still tends to favor enfeebling over healing. Could we have some way to order the following roles/option/priority sets as we liked:

• preservation of life
• optimal damage
• support (enfeebling and buffing)

Then placement of attachments would further adjust/augment/support the priority list. Granted some attachments would be ill-suited for some roles - some could even slightly override the settings.

How feasable would this be for players and programmers alike?