Splitting JA timers

[Ryx]

I'm gonna have to agree here.

While it might sound nice to have the additional job abilities from splitting the recast, hurting spirit/soul jump will only have negative consequences on the overall output of Dragoon. Spirit and Soul jump are just stronger and more useful than the original jumps while the wyvern is present.

Splitting jump timers would mostly go to make Dragoon that much better at job ability procs in dynamis, something we're already great at. We don't need this.

If the devs really want to split jump timers, then please do it like this:
Jump: Returned to its original 90 seconds recast
High Jump: Returned to its orginal 180 seconds recast
Spirit Jump: Left at its current 60 seconds recast
Soul Jump: Left at its current 120 seconds recast
Dragoon Group 1 Merits:

• Change Jump merits to Spirit Jump merits
• Change High Jump merits to Soul Jump merits

I think I speak for the community on this one: Do NOT hurt spirit/soul jump. If it's between having shared timers or hurting Spirit/Soul to get Jump/High back, we'd rather keep things as they are.

High Jump's enmity shed might be more of a consideration, if enmity itself wasn't in dire need of an overhaul right now.

That's my two gil on the matter.

-Ryx

tl;dr: Don't hurt spirit/soul jump.

[Aramaic]

Gonna have to say no to this proposed change. It will do more bad than good the way they want to adjust it for splitting timers.

[Kysaiana]

I'm for keeping jump timers together. Jump and Hi-jump are fairly useless and the increase in recast to soul/spirit jump with no ability to lower them with merits is simply a nerf.

As far as the DRG-SP goes, it was originally (after the rework) going to be just jump with no recast for I think 30 seconds. Then it was changed to all jumps with 10 sec recasts for 45 seconds, and now all jumps with 15 second recast for 45 seconds. So I guess 12 jumps in 45 seconds assuming split timers and you can fire them off fast enough.

[Yugl]

Lets say you have 1hr of a jumps (60*60 = 3600s):

New system with merits: 248 rounds of TP (20 rounds of Soul Jump; 40 rounds of Spirit Jump)

Old system with merits: 252 rounds of TP (36 rounds of Soul Jump; 72 rounds of Spirit Jump)

Should get more damage from the old system too.

Method (In case of an error):

Jump/Old Spirit Jump: 50s
High Jump/Old Soul Jump: 100s
New Spirit Jump: 90s
New Soul Jump: 180s

X = Jump recast
3600/X = N jumps
(N Jumps)*(TP Multiplier)

Spirit Jump TP Multiplier = 2
Soul Jump TP Multiplier = 3

In terms of TP and on a 6 minute rotation:
6 Jumps
3 High Jumps
4 Spirit Jumps
2 Soul Jumps
High and normal Jump are increased 20% with full merits.
1.2*(6+3)+8+6 = 24.8 hits of TP without merits

Currently in 6 minutes:
6 Spirit Jumps
3 Soul Jumps
Spirit and Soul Jump are increased 20% with merits.
12+9 = 21 hits of TP*1.2 = 25.2 hits of TP without merits

Now, you obviously do more damage and rely less on having a Wyvern out, but I would be really hesitant to endorse the new option as superior from a high-haste DD standpoint.

Splitting timers is a nerf for DRG under those conditions. If you're going to split them, have . . .

Jump: 1min
High Jump: 2min
Spirit Jump: 1min
Soul Jump: 2min

Don't forget that we often combine 2hrs with high haste situations, so JA-delay will affect total damage as well. For each jump, we embrace a 1s delay, so if you're using four jumps during the 2hr, you already cut 4s from the delay itself. Give 1-2s for the ability as well (Assumes super fast macro smashing) and you're looking at 8-12s just using the first round of jumps. Quite frankly, an SP like Mighty Strikes would offer more during high haste for DRG. Not to mention, this 2hr doesn't work comfortably with our other 2hr since taking advantage of high haste and using jumps contradict each other.

[Tanama]

I agree with my fellow Dragoons. Extending the recast timer on Spirit Jump and Soul Jump will impact Dragoon negatively. Making Dragoon weaker will worsen the current situation.

I agree with Ryx's suggestion:

If the devs really want to split jump timers, then please do it like this:
Jump: Returned to its original 90 seconds recast
High Jump: Returned to its orginal 180 seconds recast
Spirit Jump: Left at its current 60 seconds recast
Soul Jump: Left at its current 120 seconds recast
Dragoon Group 1 Merits:

• Change Jump merits to Spirit Jump merits
• Change High Jump merits to Soul Jump merits

If it's done that way, leave Spirit Jump and Soul Jump as they are. I feel Jump and High Jump should be strengthened regardless. Dragoon definitely needs a boost to it's damage because at the moment, we are an unpopular choice for high-end content unless you have a Ryunohige.

The wyvern needs a damage dealing boost and enemies need reduction to breath resistance so that Wyvern Breath actually matters. At this time, the wyvern is solely used to strengthen Spirit and Soul Jump and an occasional heal. Damage-wise it does almost nothing on high-level content because the wyvern is either dead or incapacitated from the heavy aoe damage and status effects.

Everyone else explained the job ability delay issue a lot better than I could. Make note of this and I sincerely hope the development team decides to aid us rather than weaken us further.

[Frapp]

I too am for keeping the timers consolidated (Jump + Spirit; High Jump + Soul). The math and JA delay everyone is talking about, I agree with.

I would like to make the additional point against splitting timers with what we were told a long time ago by SE. That we are running out of "slots" in the code for job abilities. Yes, we are about to add 20 new abilities in a coming update. Those were originally going to be on a shared timer, but progress being made with the coding is allowing them to be separate. Also, that same work is being done so that 2 new jobs can be introduced with Seekers of Adoulin.

I don't know how many JA "slots" the developers are going to be able to add, but we should consider that the number will be just as finite as it is now. GEO and RNF are going to need the bulk of the new JAs. Each job will probably get a handful of new abilities as well. I would much rather leave DRG's JAs (and by extension, most of the shared JAs on other jobs) alone simply to be able to get more abilities down the line.

[Nightfox]

Can always split the timers with no change to recasts.

[Tennotsukai]

yeah, I don't agree with the proposed idea either. I would love to be able to see jump and high jump again but not at this cost

[Vivik]

NO! That is all.

[Ophannus]

Yugl I don't think we could utilize both 2hrs effectively since they both require the wyvern to be used. If we use Rouse Wyvern first for the reduced Jump timers then do Spirit Surge, we lose the Wyvern and thus we lost the bonus TP from Spirit/Soul Jump, so you'd have to calculate if losing the bonus TP from Soul Jump/Spirit Jump is worth combining Rouse Wyvern with Spirit Surge for just the 25% JA haste.