Un-gimping magic procs in dynamis

[tyrantsyn]

Hello,

It's an understandable request when reviewing the magic weakness triggering percentages compared to job abilities and weapon skills. The order of proc rates is definitely magic > abilities > WS in order from lowest to highest, so magic is the low end.
The reason why magic proc rate was set at a lower value is because weapon skills require TP, and since they cannot be quickly used over and over again in a single battle we set the activation rate higher. Spells on the other hand have a quick casting time and can be reused at a much faster pace. Therefore, the weakness triggering rate is set lower since the amount of times you can cast is considerably faster. (Abilities are 30 seconds to a couple minutes, so this is in the middle)

We've made adjustments so that the procs occur at their expected values, but since magic spells can be used quickly, there is a remaining impression that weaknesses cannot be exploited.

So the player base says imbalance, the Dev's claims it is balance. And zones will continue to be dominated by thieves and Beastmaster's only spamming JA proc's because they are feasible and allow the best results.

Honestly, whatever. If the Dev's simply can't look at the zone's and see what we're trying to tell them day after day. And insist that their percentages are right on the money than fine. The idea here is to free up the zone's during peak JA proc's. And allow the player base more options during different proc time's so that were not tripping over one another to claim mobs. If they rather keep things this way, fine.

Just consider me a dissatisfied customer when it comes to Dynamis and done leaving feedback on the subject.

[Motenten]

My Weapon Skill proc rate was based on Energy Drain usage. I only used Energy Drain if the monster was unprocced, so I could count the number of Energy Drains and the number of resulting procs. Again, though, maybe only 40-50 WSs.

What results did you have for your weaponskill test? (couldn't find a post on that either) My parses on pup have it at ~19%, but those include both real weaponskills and puppet JAs that are counted as weaponskills. Since the rep explicitly stated that weaponskills have higher proc rates than JAs, and JAs are 20%, then that suggests that puppet JAs may have a lower proc rate to balance things out, if your test supported the idea of >20% weaponskill proc rates. On the other hand, random anecdotal posts on weaponskill procs after the change to AOE weaponskills implied they were also somewhere around 20%.

If they are in fact the same 20%, then the rep was given factually incorrect information.

[Trumpy]

didnt read alot of the thread but My LS did some dynamis runs for a while with 2-3 parties worth of people. i would usually be blm and there would be times when they would pull a ton of mobs and me and other mages would sleep them. They would proc JA and WS mobs sometimes splitting up or soloing their own meanwhile i would keep the others slept and try to proc the magic ones. 10% of the time i actually proced magic. the rest never would. now my success isnt the point of this post, but 95% of the time I would be holding and sleepin these mages and spamming enfeebles sometimes nukes for literally 15 minutes with not a single proc. I understand the balance of the rates but i feel magic was set entirely too low. call it bad luck but this was pretty much how it always happened. I think procing WS and JA within a minute despite the recasts versus spamming magic non stop for 15 minutes and jsut finally giving up is NOT balanced.

[Luvbunny]

So basically it's the usual tactics, disregard problems, ignore requests from player base. Maybe if we are ignored long enough, we will stop voicing our opinion. Well you all know what to do, if you are ignored for months or years, you can just stop playing lol.

[Hashmalum]

Of course no one wants that, but there's a possibility that's what's going to happen. This is SE were talking about here.Or have you been playing a totally different game than I have this past decade or so? Actions have unintended consequences? Who knew?

They're adult human beings--not children, the insane, or mindless automatons. They are the ones responsible for their own actions--not us.

With apologies to the community reps, I do hope you can provide a complete and proper translation of that to the devs, so they can fully understand the objection. Simply saying "The NA players think magic proc rates are too low" isn't at all useful to a programmer or developer. They'll have their own models of how they believe things work, but that doesn't necessarily match the player's view of the world. It could very well be that their estimation is based on the same mistake I made, calculating the actual rate at which you can cast spells by looking at the raw spell data vs actually using it.

I agree 1000% on this, but I'm afraid that this avenue of approach will get us nowhere. To my knowledge, the community reps have NEVER told us exactly what they told the devs, or what their criteria for relaying feedback is. I'm afraid that if we want the devs to see our detailed reasoning that the only workable approach is to find a friendly bilingual poster and get them to translate and post our detailed concerns on the JP forums, which the devs read directly (this also provides us with an opportunity to get lobbying support from the JP community). Unfortunately my limited Japanese just isn't up to the task, otherwise I would be translating your post even now.

[Luvbunny]

You can try to google translate the japanese forum. Most of it are somewhat confusing translation but the gist should be all there. Seems that the japanese players have similar opinions when it come to the recent "adjustment", and as we all read, the developers still giving us the same respond, do not care, proceed as planned, player base matter not lol.

[Sapphires]

They should up the proc rate in general for single target spells and maybe even increase the proc chances depending on mp cost/cast time/tier of the magic spell being cast (Aero III has a better chance to proc than Dia for example).

As it stands right now 2 mages can spam dia on a target and be unable to proc it before a single DD kills it from just straight meleeing.
Its pretty sad when 2 carbuncles DD a magic proc mob and 2 smns spam dia nonstop and still cant proc it before it dies. Thats balance!

Anyways im done with dynamis pretty much aside from af2+2 xp trials, tired of being stuck with overcrowded JA camps and it supporting very little job diversity.

[Byrth]

What results did you have for your weaponskill test? (couldn't find a post on that either) My parses on pup have it at ~19%, but those include both real weaponskills and puppet JAs that are counted as weaponskills. Since the rep explicitly stated that weaponskills have higher proc rates than JAs, and JAs are 20%, then that suggests that puppet JAs may have a lower proc rate to balance things out, if your test supported the idea of >20% weaponskill proc rates. On the other hand, random anecdotal posts on weaponskill procs after the change to AOE weaponskills implied they were also somewhere around 20%.

If they are in fact the same 20%, then the rep was given factually incorrect information.

Actually, my proc rate came out at 15%.

[Motenten]

Actually, my proc rate came out at 15%.

Hmm. Interesting. And that was with Energy Drain? I wonder if weaponskill proc rate chance scales with damage? Energy Drain would do 0 damage, so 15% would be the minimum rate if that were the case. I do find that using Smite or Exenterator after time changes from JA to WS has a decently high rate of proc'ing a mob. Anecdotally, I would certainly consider it better than 15%. And of course my pup parses have been consistently around 19%, pushing 20% if you factor out puppet actions after a mob has been staggered. (example sample size: 71/370)

And of course that also leads me back to wondering if spell damage (for the spells that do damage) matters as well. If that were the case, spamming Dia would obviously give you the lowest possible proc rate, since it does around 0 to 5 damage. I'll try to control for that when I do the test.

[Byrth]

I'd be inclined to credit low sample size more than the weapon skill choice. As I said, there were only like 40 of them or something. I generally considered proccing with Energy Drain to be a waste of time and TP so I didn't do it often. My Aeolian Edge results were almost very difficult to analyze in any automated way because I'd proc monsters and then they'd still get hit with future AEs, so I had to limit my analysis to Energy Drain.