Un-gimping magic procs in dynamis

[Phogg]

As a thf, I can get off only 3 ZERO damage Energy drain weapon skill proc attempts before an EP mob dies. I can get roughly twice as many attempts off on a DC mob before it dies, assuming I do not die first. In about half the cases, these mobs will die before they are proc'd.

That is why JA procs are still vastly superior. I can't simply turn around and keep proc'ing with WSs like I can JA's, meaning unless I am not paying attention, I will proc 100% of mobs I engage using JA's, compared to roughly 50% of mobs when I use WSs. Not sure how that's even remotely close to "balanced".

In practice, 3/4's of the dynamis mobs don't even need to exist if they are not currently on JA proc time. Players are excellent at exploiting things, so if they could exploit Magic or WS procs as effectively as JA's, they would do it. Yet, 95% of people work on JA mobs any time I am in dynamis. SE is doing this very wrong, other proc options should be made as viable as JAs.

[Aeonk]

As a thf, I can get off only 3 ZERO damage Energy drain weapon skill proc attempts before an EP mob dies. I can get roughly twice as many attempts off on a DC mob before it dies, assuming I do not die first. In about half the cases, these mobs will die before they are proc'd.

That is why JA procs are still vastly superior. I can't simply turn around and keep proc'ing with WSs like I can JA's, meaning unless I am not paying attention, I will proc 100% of mobs I engage using JA's, compared to roughly 50% of mobs when I use WSs. Not sure how that's even remotely close to "balanced".

In practice, 3/4's of the dynamis mobs don't even need to exist if they are not currently on JA proc time. Players are excellent at exploiting things, so if they could exploit Magic or WS procs as effectively as JA's, they would do it. Yet, 95% of people work on JA mobs any time I am in dynamis. SE is doing this very wrong, other proc options should be made as viable as JAs.

Definately agree. JA procs are nice but frankly I'm sure I'm not the only one tired of fighting with BSTs for mobs during the desired window. And thanks to the recent blinker nerf it's only gotten worse. Increasing proc options for magic and WS makes it so that just about anyone can farm dynamis if they want to, as opposed to BST/BLU/THF/DNC only. Would make it that much more lucrative for everyone, both sellers and relic makers

[Psxpert2011]

I was talking about dynamis. This thread has nothing to do with abyssea.

Yes, I admit I was thinking abysea and not dynamis and I've been in dynamis many, many times.
I've witness the WS and magic procing as it was ment to control the pwning of players coming from abysea (thinking they can own dynamis). Yes, I admit my initial post was total focus on abysea and i'm sorry but I stand firm with it.

Still: mages, ego, balance..it was initially bold out for a reason. I'll stand up to it- same argument applies.


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Yeah, I heard a whoosh sound when I read it, because the point of this thread went right over his head.

Believe me, I get it: In refrence to the "Whooosh sound" in someones head... or probably due to lack of substance & activity.

[Demon6324236]

In either case as people pointed out the proc rate is low even if your spamming the fastest spells, which for a job to main or sub those jobs would likely lower your kill speed. However the fastest JA proc main or sub is DNC, something which helps you fight and proc both, as well as it procs faster than magic, making it better in every way, this is why it needs changed.

[Kincard]

Re: WS procs being too slow. In theory, since you're proccing using an ability you'd use over the course of a battle anyway, you'd end up coming pretty close to coins yield because you're killing really fast to make up for the fact that you only proc a fraction of the monsters you fight. Get a couple more chances at +2 items as well since those don't seem to be affected by procs.

It works in theory only if there's an infinite number of monsters and your WS numbers are large enough to be outdoing the time you'd spend JA-ing and holding monsters at 5% HP. WS proc rate is pretty high honestly. Maybe I'll try seeing what happens if I try to bulldose through a camp maximizing my damage and only incidentally getting procs. I doubt it'll come near the bill yield of JAs, but considering it takes a lot less finesse to do it could work if I'm in a caveman mood.

[Phogg]

Re: WS procs being too slow. In theory, since you're proccing using an ability you'd use over the course of a battle anyway, you'd end up coming pretty close to coins yield because you're killing really fast to make up for the fact that you only proc a fraction of the monsters you fight. Get a couple more chances at +2 items as well since those don't seem to be affected by procs.

It works in theory only if there's an infinite number of monsters and your WS numbers are large enough to be outdoing the time you'd spend JA-ing and holding monsters at 5% HP. WS proc rate is pretty high honestly. Maybe I'll try seeing what happens if I try to bulldose through a camp maximizing my damage and only incidentally getting procs. I doubt it'll come near the bill yield of JAs, but considering it takes a lot less finesse to do it could work if I'm in a caveman mood.

I have tried, its not even remotely close. Even in a competitive run, JA's will win out by a tremendous amount compared to killing WS mobs with no competition. Like I said, I can attempt 3 zero dmg WS procs as THF before an EP mob dies from my normal melee attacks just trying to get TP for energy drain. So, just to attempt 3 procs per mob I already need to vastly slow down my kill speed, and that third ws is not always there. If I were actually using a normal WS to proc, they would die after 1 WS + melee dmg. I can technically double the attempts on DC's but many times I need to use TP to cure myself because the DCs hit considerably harder, and killing them takes much longer, which again reduces your net result compared to killing EPs during JA time.

As BST/dnc you can attempt 3 procs in the first 5 seconds of a battle, and continue attempts every 8 seconds or so after that, with minimal impact on your DD output. If you actually went full bulldoze mode during WS time, as you suggest, you would kill all the mobs really fast, that's for sure, and you would also proc maybe 15% of them. The ones you don't, even on thf will net you maybe 1 coin for every 5 kills. In that same amount of time you would proc and kill at least 3 mobs using JA's, and even at a conservative average of 2 coins per proc'd mob, that's 6 for JA, 1 coin for WS. One proc attempt per mob will not get it done, not even close, not in the same state, not in the same country as JA's. The system requires proc's to net a reasonable amount of coins for your effort.

There are maybe 1/5~6 mobs I need to turn for to make sure I JA proc at low HP, and the reason people do so is because getting that !! really is critical, its the difference between getting nothing, and getting up to 4 coins. So, even if I ignored those and just pushed through and did not slow my kill rate, I would still proc roughly 3~4/5 mobs with JAs. Considering on BST/dnc you can proc a mob fairly swiftly, WS >> snarl and leave to proc another mob without slowing your kill rate at all, procing 1/5 mobs with WS (at best) will net a dramatically worse result. Give it a go, it will take you all of 30 minutes in dyna to give up on it entirely and go back to using JAs. If you do an entire two hour run on only WS mobs, you will look back and wish you never wasted the time figuring out it would take 4-5 runs of dynamis in WS time to get as many coins as one run in JA time.

[FrankReynolds]

Yes, I admit I was thinking abysea and not dynamis and I've been in dynamis many, many times.
I've witness the WS and magic procing as it was ment to control the pwning of players coming from abysea (thinking they can own dynamis). Yes, I admit my initial post was total focus on abysea and i'm sorry but I stand firm with it.

Still: mages, ego, balance..it was initially bold out for a reason. I'll stand up to it- same argument applies.

None of that made sense in the context of this topic.

[hiko]

I have tried, its not even remotely close. Even in a competitive run, JA's will win out by a tremendous amount compared to killing WS mobs with no competition. Like I said, I can attempt 3 zero dmg WS procs as THF before an EP mob dies from my normal melee attacks just trying to get TP for energy drain. So, just to attempt 3 procs per mob I already need to vastly slow down my kill speed, and that third ws is not always there. If I were actually using a normal WS to proc, they would die after 1 WS + melee dmg. I can technically double the attempts on DC's but many times I need to use TP to cure myself because the DCs hit considerably harder, and killing them takes much longer, which again reduces your net result compared to killing EPs during JA time.

As BST/dnc you can attempt 3 procs in the first 5 seconds of a battle, and continue attempts every 8 seconds or so after that, with minimal impact on your DD output. If you actually went full bulldoze mode during WS time, as you suggest, you would kill all the mobs really fast, that's for sure, and you would also proc maybe 15% of them. The ones you don't, even on thf will net you maybe 1 coin for every 5 kills. In that same amount of time you would proc and kill at least 3 mobs using JA's, and even at a conservative average of 2 coins per proc'd mob, that's 6 for JA, 1 coin for WS. One proc attempt per mob will not get it done, not even close, not in the same state, not in the same country as JA's. The system requires proc's to net a reasonable amount of coins for your effort.

There are maybe 1/5~6 mobs I need to turn for to make sure I JA proc at low HP, and the reason people do so is because getting that !! really is critical, its the difference between getting nothing, and getting up to 4 coins. So, even if I ignored those and just pushed through and did not slow my kill rate, I would still proc roughly 3~4/5 mobs with JAs. Considering on BST/dnc you can proc a mob fairly swiftly, WS >> snarl and leave to proc another mob without slowing your kill rate at all, procing 1/5 mobs with WS (at best) will net a dramatically worse result. Give it a go, it will take you all of 30 minutes in dyna to give up on it entirely and go back to using JAs. If you do an entire two hour run on only WS mobs, you will look back and wish you never wasted the time figuring out it would take 4-5 runs of dynamis in WS time to get as many coins as one run in JA time.

thf is not a good job to WS proc dyna doesn't mean no job can do better ws procing

[FrankReynolds]

thf is not a good job to WS proc dyna doesn't mean no job can do better ws procing

WHat job would you say is better? And how does that change anything in his post?

[Kristal]

What job would you say is better?

PUP. The same mechanism that is a bane in Abyssea is a boon in Dynamis.

And how does that change anything in his post?

It's mostly complaining about certain job/subjob combinations that already have a distinct advantage are not good at everything.

Noone is good on magic procs, not even RDM, although the math shows that you actually need slightly less then twice the proc attempts to get a proc compared to WS and JA.