Un-gimping magic procs in dynamis

[Glamdring]

That's the fundamental problem with their proc system in general; it rewards quantity over quality. Some jobs are really good at spamming JAs/magic/WSs, and others are really bad at it. It doesn't matter if the spell takes 20 seconds to cast, it still has the same chance to proc as foe lullaby. It doesn't matter if your JA has a 20 minute recast, it still has the same proc rate as box step. It doesn't matter if it takes you a minute to get 100 TP, your WS proc rate is the same as samurai.

Edit: Personally, I'd like it better if there was some minor skill-based way to increase your chances of proccing though. If they could make each magic-proc enemy glow a certain color, and you get a 3x normal chance to proc with spells matching that element.

I think you pretty much nailed it. I usually solo pup/dnc with either the whm or rdm auto which yeilds a pretty even proc rate on all 3 procs and lets me work some camps that aren't as common due to the magic mobs around. But it is MUCH slower than other job combos or even other autos as you pointed out in your earlier post (60-75 currency rate per 2 hour run instead of the 100-120 I could do-if I luck out and have no competition). Not to mention REALLY missing a sleep ability when the smn mobs decide to show up. Too bad rng/nin is so squishy with no healing ability to speak of, with a good Xbow (if one existed at endgame) it could make a good 3 proc solo artist without all the godawful downtime that cripples its effectiveness and allow for TH use.

[Demon6324236]

We've made adjustments so that the procs occur at their expected values, but since magic spells can be used quickly, there is a remaining impression that weaknesses cannot be exploited.

Please keep in mind, I am a RDM with a Fast Cast set that is at roughly -70% cast time. Even with that I dare not bother to even attempt to proc magic proc mobs with Dia. My casting & recast are so small it is insignificant, but the low proc rate makes it so unappealing I am better off going RDM/DNC & fighting Job Ability proc mobs rather than actually going out & fighting magic proc mobs. A 5% proc rate is a 1/20 chance, which is what the players have estimated it as, and with my experience its true. This low of a rate makes it much harder, even if you can spam spells.

The reason why magic proc rate was set at a lower value is because weapon skills require TP, and since they cannot be quickly used over and over again in a single battle we set the activation rate higher. Spells on the other hand have a quick casting time and can be reused at a much faster pace.

Spells cost MP as well, just like WSs cost TP. At 20 casts of dia per proc, you are looking at 140 MP on average to proc a mob, thats alot of time & MP, a job without refresh would be empty after only 6~7 mobs proced. I understand magic can be spammed quickly, but look at it this way, RDM with nearly capped Fast Cast, and yet I don't bother procing magic procs, let alone other jobs that cast slower, or don't have a 7MP/Tick Refresh effect at nearly all times. The speed of magic really does not go well with this low rate, by keeping it the same it will simply keep ignoring magic proc mobs & doing mainly JA, with a few people going to WS. Magic mobs are currently just that bad, please reconsider this, it will help overall clutter in zones & make more jobs effective in Dyna as a whole!

[Hashmalum]

The developers have stated that they don't want to create content that nobody does. That's good. But that is exactly what they have done with magic and weaponskill proc mobs. Nobody tries to proc on them; procs on magic/WS mobs are basically by accident. There's no reason to even kill them in the first place unless they aggro or you are farming non-currency drops like pop items; in neither of these two cases is it worth your time to try and proc. (In the first case you want the aggro out of the way ASAP so you can get back to what you meant to be doing, in the second case procing won't help your drop rates and trying to proc will slow down your kill speed.) If only we could force them to open their damn eyes and actually LOOK at what is going on instead of tossing off some preconceived notion that they have never tested against the reality even once.

[Raksha]

The reason why they cannot increase magic proc rate is BLU. Can easily spam Delta Thrust, Head Butt, or 20 other possible quick cast/recast spells that they have.

Oh no, BLU might become as good at farming dynamis as DNC is currently.

Can't have that.

[Demon6324236]

I'm confused as to why BLU would be more of a threat than RDM, BLU actually can kill the mob with spells & has alot less MP recovery than RDM does, where as RDM also has alot more on the defensive side (so far as I know) to keep the enemy from really taking them down.

[Hashmalum]

I'm confused as to why BLU would be more of a threat than RDM, BLU actually can kill the mob with spells & has alot less MP recovery than RDM does, where as RDM also has alot more on the defensive side (so far as I know) to keep the enemy from really taking them down.

Because RDM doesn't so much kill mobs as it does annoy them to death.

[Motenten]

From a superficial look, I don't think giving blu the ability to spam for procs would be significantly negative problem.

Consider: You need 4-5 spells that you can cycle through, given recast timers, if you really want to be able to spam them. This probably means at least a couple spells squeezing out of the standard, 'preferred' spells.

If raw spell proc rates were increased to 15%, 10 spells would give an 80% per-mob proc rate. 10 spells would eat up a good 20 seconds of melee time, and probably at least 20% of the blu's MP pool. Now, the spells themselves do damage, so it's not a complete loss, but you're not going to be doing melee damage or getting TP during that period.

Overall kill time may be in the 20-30 second range (which is pretty good solo; that's more the time you'd expect from a duo), but you'll run out of MP fairly quickly at that pace since a lot of the damage will have to come from spells due to lack of melee TP.

If you think the potential is a bit too high, you can lower the proc rate to 12.5%, which would give a 75% per-mob proc rate after 10 spells.

I need to do a run and parse the current behavior just to get a better idea of the degree of shift needed for this to be viable.

Edit: and yes, I doubt this would be practical for rdm solo, but it could at least have the potential of being a good duo setup.

[Aldersyde]

You people just never learn do you?

They are not going up magic proc, they will just end up nerfing ja procs.

I guess when everyone's proc rate sucks together, you'll all be happy?

[Demon6324236]

If they do then oh well, they just prove again they don't care about players & instead want to make this game suck.

[Babekeke]

you know if your going to reply with game data you should probably at least use what is mostly being used for job ability procs which in this case would mostly be Box step(15 second reuses) and Violent flourish (20 second reuses) which are both considerably faster than once every 30 seconds to 1 min, on the magic side your also not considering excluding rdm mp gathers slower than tp does

/sigh

You had to go and say it. You couldn't resist, and went and said it.

Next dev response: "we understand that job ability procs are actually easier than we had originally intended, so they will be reduced to proc the same as magic".

Then the price of currenecy goes up and people stop making relics.

I'm confused as to why BLU would be more of a threat than RDM, BLU actually can kill the mob with spells & has alot less MP recovery than RDM does, where as RDM also has alot more on the defensive side (so far as I know) to keep the enemy from really taking them down.

Blu can get TH2 without THF sub... only real reason I can think of.