Un-gimping magic procs in dynamis

[Gaspee]

I agree with the OP. The congestion at the job ability mobs is really bad... making magic and ws procs a little easier would be a welcomed adjustment!

[Motenten]

Another issue is WS procs. It is believed that WS procs are actually at a bit lower rate than JA procs, even though it is usually possible to use JAs much more often than WSes.

From my parses on pup, weaponskill proc rates are also at about 20%. (I got 18.8% overall, but that includes the puppet using its abilities on proc'd mobs; it excludes pure-damage weaponskills on proc'd mobs, since I use different weaponskills for procs vs damage.)

The main difference is that weaponskill procs (aside from puppets) inherently do damage to the mob (plus counting the melee time needed to get TP for another attempt), which means the mob will always die faster from weaponskill procs than JA procs, reducing the chances of getting a proc before the mob dies. Number of attempts per mob determines the overall proc rate, so that's an important factor.

I've never parsed magic proc rates, but from incidental attempts that I've seen... Well, ninjutsu seems to have a very low proc rate; 10% at best. Normal magic from rdm (when silencing/sleeping/etc mage beastmen) doesn't seem too terribly bad, though still annoying; dia almost never proc's, but things like silence/sleep/paralyze/slow/etc seemed more likely.

Personally, I'd probably suggest having the chance of proc'ing be proportional to the cast time of the spell (base cast time of the spell, not the result after fast cast is applied). Things like Dia and extremely fast blu spells would be on the low end. Maybe ancient magic could be like a 50% proc rate or something. And maybe it already works that way; I don't know that anyone's done any testing on it other than the gut feeling of the above anecdotes, with obvious eyeballing caveat. It might also be proportional to damage done, for spells that do damage (and then a fixed value for enfeebles), which would also make fast, low-damage spells like Dia less useful.

[Okipuit]

Hello,

It's an understandable request when reviewing the magic weakness triggering percentages compared to job abilities and weapon skills. The order of proc rates is definitely magic > abilities > WS in order from lowest to highest, so magic is the low end.
The reason why magic proc rate was set at a lower value is because weapon skills require TP, and since they cannot be quickly used over and over again in a single battle we set the activation rate higher. Spells on the other hand have a quick casting time and can be reused at a much faster pace. Therefore, the weakness triggering rate is set lower since the amount of times you can cast is considerably faster. (Abilities are 30 seconds to a couple minutes, so this is in the middle)

We've made adjustments so that the procs occur at their expected values, but since magic spells can be used quickly, there is a remaining impression that weaknesses cannot be exploited.

[Raksha]

Hello,

It's an understandable request when reviewing the magic weakness triggering percentages compared to job abilities and weapon skills. The order of proc rates is definitely magic > abilities > WS in order from lowest to highest, so magic is the low end.
The reason why magic proc rate was set at a lower value is because weapon skills require TP, and since they cannot be quickly used over and over again in a single battle we set the activation rate higher. Spells on the other hand have a quick casting time and can be reused at a much faster pace. Therefore, the weakness triggering rate is set lower since the amount of times you can cast is considerably faster. (Abilities are 30 seconds to a couple minutes, so this is in the middle)

We've made adjustments so that the procs occur at their expected values, but since magic spells can be used quickly, there is a remaining impression that weaknesses cannot be exploited.

A simple "No" would've sufficed.

[Helel]

Hello,

It's an understandable request when reviewing the magic weakness triggering percentages compared to job abilities and weapon skills. The order of proc rates is definitely magic > abilities > WS in order from lowest to highest, so magic is the low end.
The reason why magic proc rate was set at a lower value is because weapon skills require TP, and since they cannot be quickly used over and over again in a single battle we set the activation rate higher. Spells on the other hand have a quick casting time and can be reused at a much faster pace. Therefore, the weakness triggering rate is set lower since the amount of times you can cast is considerably faster. (Abilities are 30 seconds to a couple minutes, so this is in the middle)

We've made adjustments so that the procs occur at their expected values, but since magic spells can be used quickly, there is a remaining impression that weaknesses cannot be exploited.

You must realize that magic procs are completely pointless and NOBODY does them intentionally. Even on BLU, if I accidentally aggro a magic-proc mob, I don't even bother trying to proc it. I kill it as soon as possible and move on to something I can proc. It's faster NOT to proc magic mobs than to attempt to proc them. Do you really think that makes any sense whatsoever? Why does this proc even exist to begin with?

With three people, it takes an average of 5-10 seconds to proc a mob using job abilities. With magic procs, it takes an average of 30 seconds, if not more...

[Kincard]

Even using JA procs I've been stuck on monsters for 2-3 minutes before before they procced. Yeah I know it would've been better to move on, but just saiyan. Also something the dev team failed to consider is the opportunity cost of using magic- casting magic over and over hurts your damage to the monster, whereas JAs, while adding the same amount of delay, only need a few uses, and WSs are something you would do in the course of battle anyway. Spamming dia is not something people normally do.

Would it at least be possible for the monster to force a proc after so many attempts? Even if you make it a high number (say, 20 casts) at least I KNOW I'll get a proc eventually even if the RNG screws me over.

[Riggs]

I find these answers from the SE reps on this forum very frustrating, all he has done is re-hase the original news about this and not taken any consideration in to what people are saying about magic proc, did you even take this to any member of the dev team?
Please if you don't believe any one here go to dynamis watch how people play it, you will not see one magic proc party of solo player there.

[HimuraKenshyn]

Next up nerf WS and JA to equal magic the Old School SE way.....

[Metaking]

Hello,

It's an understandable request when reviewing the magic weakness triggering percentages compared to job abilities and weapon skills. The order of proc rates is definitely magic > abilities > WS in order from lowest to highest, so magic is the low end.
The reason why magic proc rate was set at a lower value is because weapon skills require TP, and since they cannot be quickly used over and over again in a single battle we set the activation rate higher. Spells on the other hand have a quick casting time and can be reused at a much faster pace. Therefore, the weakness triggering rate is set lower since the amount of times you can cast is considerably faster. (Abilities are 30 seconds to a couple minutes, so this is in the middle)

We've made adjustments so that the procs occur at their expected values, but since magic spells can be used quickly, there is a remaining impression that weaknesses cannot be exploited.

you know if your going to reply with game data you should probably at least use what is mostly being used for job ability procs which in this case would mostly be Box step(15 second reuses) and Violent flourish (20 second reuses) which are both considerably faster than once every 30 seconds to 1 min, on the magic side your also not considering excluding rdm mp gathers slower than tp does

[Dazusu]

A simple "No" would've sufficed.

They post short answers and people cry for more of an explanation/justification. Can't have your cake and eat it as well.