TH Procing

[Sp1cyryan]

I'm not going to read all that. You opinion was clear, unhelpful and unnecessary in your first post. Everything after that is a waste.

Let's hope SE sheds light on this issue so we can play THF correctly for increased TH proc rates.

I'm not going to read all that. You opinion was clear, unhelpful and unnecessary in your first post. Everything after that is a waste.

[Alhanelem]

I'm not going to read all that.

Well, that's your first problem. You should read it, and you should test your hypothesis.

I approached you on this topic in good faith. But if you're going to be dismissive and condecending, we can go back to the way things were where I disagree with you and you rant about how terrible I am instead of anything meaningful happening.

You are not going to get an official response (I guarantee it), so I gave you the information you needed too find out the answer yourself. If you want to keep hoping, by all means, but I"m being realistic. You are overthinking something that most likely is not as complex as you are suggesting, and you're implying another Treasure Hunter conspiracy that most likely does not exist.

I do not believe there is any hidden modifier (or even a random factor) to the rate at which TH procs apply. There is no research or evidence out there to suggest that this is the case, so if you think that it is, the burden is on you to find that out, because SE is most definitely not going to tell you. That's just the reality of the situation.

You want answers, but even though you have the ability to find the answers yourself, you're not willing to put in the work to do it.

[Gwydion]

Well, that's your first problem. You should read it, and you should test your hypothesis.

I approached you on this topic in good faith. But if you're going to be dismissive and condecending, we can go back to the way things were where I disagree with you and you rant about how terrible I am instead of anything meaningful happening.

You are not going to get an official response (I guarantee it), so I gave you the information you needed too find out the answer yourself. If you want to keep hoping, by all means, but I"m being realistic. You are overthinking something that most likely is not as complex as you are suggesting, and you're implying another Treasure Hunter conspiracy that most likely does not exist.

I do not believe there is any hidden modifier (or even a random factor) to the rate at which TH procs apply. There is no research or evidence out there to suggest that this is the case, so if you think that it is, the burden is on you to find that out, because SE is most definitely not going to tell you. That's just the reality of the situation.

You want answers, but even though you have the ability to find the answers yourself, you're not willing to put in the work to do it.

If the modifiers in question cause a non-linear change in TH proc rate, then the test you are suggesting is a complete waste of time. It's not "complex", it's a common practice to select multiple distribution tables in MMO games, so you're suggesting a testing method that has a high likelihood to be a waste of time.

I've waited 10 years for SE to answer this question, so I'll just keep waiting.

[Alhanelem]

If the modifiers in question cause a non-linear change in TH proc rate, then the test you are suggesting is a complete waste of time.

If you have any understanding about how math works, you would know that whether or not the relationship is non-linear, there is a relationship and that relationship can be tested. You are simply refusing to do work that, at worst, would give you a reasonable approximation if not the exact answer.

It's a big "if" in the first place, but even if your conclusion isn't accurate, it is not a "complete waste of time." The very worst thing that can happen is you find that the data you collected isn't useful which would prove your "what if" is the case. This would save anyone else the time spent testing it and would also point future people exploring this in the right direction. Testing things is NEVER a waste of time.

If I had any reason to believe that there is some super secret hidden complexity to how procs work, I would test for it. But I have no reason to do so because neither you nor anyone else has brought forth any evidence to suggest that this might be the case. All you have is a theory that's based on nothing but an argument you had with someone.

I can't tell you what to do with your time. I'm merely suggesting you actually do something about your alleged problem rather than wait for an answer that will never come, as you by your own admission claim to have been waiting a decade, and you will likely go to your grave not having the answer to this incredibly trivial issue of how to optimize proc rate. You will probably get all the drops you're optimizing for in the time it takes you to get an answer without testing. But hey, you do you. I'd love to help you find the answer, but you have to want to find it. And I mean that, if you want to explore it, I will be supportive of that. But you have to stop dismissing me out of hand.

[Alhanelem]

Maybe I'm missing something, but does this not pretty clearly mean that yes, the chance for triggering the value going up is affected by the difference between your treasure hunter level, and the one currently on the enemy?

This does indicate that there is a modifier involved, but it has nothing to do with any combat attributes.

While I'll be the first to agree that SE rarely takes the most logical path on anything, there just isn't any evidence to support combat stats influencing the rate of triggering TH procs.

As I explained and got brushed aside on, if crit modifies success rate in any way, it would be easily testable. Even if there is some fancy non-linear modifier which Gwydion is using to excuse himself from attempting to test this, if crits did anything at all for TH procing, there would be some difference between having a lot of crit and having very little. Even if he couldn't get precise results due to some super secret variable, there is still value in testing it (if we want to assume any such crit mod exists) You would require a large sample size... but all the more reason to start tracking it if it's something one cares about.

[Alhanelem]

There's no way to be attacking with TH+5 while an enemy has anything less than TH+5 on it.

Different characters with different TH levels.

[Dihlyte]

Simply put:

Using anything less than a total of TH14 total lowers your chance to proc from 13-14.

Using anything more than TH14 is not going to increase the chance to proc higher or faster to reach 14.

The above is clearly stated by the developer.

The following, can be assumed, that critical hits do not affect Treasure Hunter rate procs.

[Dihlyte]

Furthermore:

Applying TH 8 then removing your TH gear, will lower your chances to proc to 9.

Applying TH 8 while using TH 8 total will reduce your chances to proc to 9.

Applying TH 8 while using TH 9+ total will maximize your chances to proc to 9. (Anything less will lower your chance, anything more will not increase your chance.)

Procing to TH9 then using TH9 total will reduce your chances to proc to 10.

Procing to TH9 while using TH10+ total will maximize your chances to proc to 10.

So on so forth.

This is clearly stated by the developer.

So if we are to make a random assumption, it can be determined:

TH8 when using TH8/9 total is 100 chance to be applied.
Procing from TH8 to TH 9 while using TH9 equipment grants access to the maximum "set rate" value of let's say 25%.
Procing from TH8 to TH9 while using TH8 or lower total reduces your chances to proc to TH9 from 25% to any value less than 25%, such as 20% in TH8, 18% in TH7 etc.

Or simply:

TH8 (Mob) TH9 (player) 25% chance. (The maximum set rate)
TH8 (Mob) TH8 (Player) 20% chance. (An example of the reduced rate)
TH8 (Mob) TH17 (Player 25% chance. (An example of utilizing additional equipment)

(The above values are simply for representation purposes, and do not reflect actual values in-game.)

[Gwydion]

Combining everyone's input and converting Camate's words with sample data, I've constructed the following tables that I believe illustrate his point.

Assumptions:

1. Base TH Proc Rate is X. (Yellow)
2. Base TH Proc Rate never changes for a positive TH difference between player and monster.
3. Base TH Proc Rate shrinks when TH difference between player and mob is negative.
4. I have assumed a 10% shrinkage (rate of decay) for TH procs below just for illustration purposes.

Questions for SE that will help us players remain current in 2023:

1. Does critical hit rate increase base TH proc rate or subsequent TH proc rates?
2. Does the subsequent TH proc rate shrink when TH difference is negative as implied by Camate?
3. If so, by what amount does the TH proc rate shrink? Can player behavior influence this change outside of wearing more TH+ gear, as described below (and by Camate)?
4. Are personal drop loot (such as Peaches battle, macrocosmic orb campaign, etc). modified by their own Base TH proc rate and a separate rate of decay?

Thank you for so much in advance, even for just reading.