TH Procing

[Dihlyte]

I’m working on correct testing, but I’ve been quite busy lately.

I already learned that a difference in the level of the player and the enemy, is a very obvious factor.

I personally do not feel Crit hit rate players a role, but that needs direct testing.

It is also obvious that the more TH you have the greater chance you will have at procing. Obviously still needs more testing as per our previous discussion.

My next test will be to use the level 70 dagger, to reduce my damage on lower level mobs.

I just got the dagger two days ago.

Currently I am working 3 days in a row, and limited play time, which I normally have mondays off, so my testing will be further delayed.

Odyssey, Sortie, Omen, etc all have priority over testing TH, so I have no clue how much longer it will be until I can get back to it, but I will eventually, because the lack of information on this topic, when it’s not a mystery at all, is quite silly.

[Gwydion]

Combining everyone's input and converting Camate's words with sample data, I've constructed the following tables that I believe illustrate his point.

Assumptions:

1. Base TH Proc Rate is X. (Yellow)
2. Base TH Proc Rate never changes for a positive TH difference between player and monster.
3. Base TH Proc Rate shrinks when TH difference between player and mob is negative.
4. I have assumed a 10% shrinkage (rate of decay) for TH procs below just for illustration purposes.

Questions for SE that will help us players remain current in 2023:

1. Does critical hit rate increase base TH proc rate or subsequent TH proc rates?
2. Does the subsequent TH proc rate shrink when TH difference is negative as implied by Camate?
3. If so, by what amount does the TH proc rate shrink? Can player behavior influence this change outside of wearing more TH+ gear, as described below (and by Camate)?
4. Are personal drop loot (such as Peaches battle, macrocosmic orb campaign, etc). modified by their own Base TH proc rate and a separate rate of decay?

Thank you for so much in advance, even for just reading.

Hi SE,
Could you confirm for us that TH proc rate decays? Some players insist that TH+8 in gear has no effect on TH proc rate, but others believe (as I have pictured above), the proc rate decays as the TH difference between player and mob increases. Who's right?

Edit: This is important because party slots are already hard to come by and if THF can have a designated spot, that would be amazing for everyone.

With respect to Hoxne Ring, how does the +5% effect relate to the TH Data shared with us at PAX East in 2020?


Reference Link: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/t...l=1#post624996



Thank you for your time!

[Alhanelem]

Bumping old threads and being excessively polite isn't going to change that we already have the answers that SE has given us.

edit:

Man... I'm sorry about that, really I am. But SE answered the questions raised in the thread ages ago. We talked about it ages ago, and the answer has been there the entire time. Necrobumping the thread isn't going to change that. and the tone of your posts sometimes... it just comes across to me as laying it on overtly thick i.e. sucking up. It's hard to not think that, as I realize you have the best of intentions. But can you just.... write normally without 20 buckets of pleasantries?

This knowledge wasn't needed to "remain current" then, it isn't now, and I'm pretty sure SE feels like they've answered the questions about TH to their own satisfaction and likely consider the topic closed.

Having them re-answer the questions they already answered years ago isn't going to magically make THF more relevant. I suspect that if they do actually think THF lacks relevance more than I would argue several other jobs do, t hey would increase it's combat capabilities, not simply reveal details about THF (which again, I don't think are a secret) so you can maybe pick a few pieces of gear from what you're already using.

This really feels like some kind of superstition like the crafting compass. SE has already told us how TH works. People have been hypothesizing that there are some imagined hidden factors at work yet no one has been able to prove that with any testing in the 13+ years since the subject was first raised. You really should just assume that crit does not affect TH procing, there has never been any clear evidence that it does, SE has never said that it did, and it doesn't even make sense any more than facing certain directions while crafting did. Simply gear yourself under the assumption that crit is not a factor. And maybe consider suggesting ways to make THF more relevant beyond simply making TH marginally more effective.

Please don't necrobump a topic unless you have something meaningful to add. You merely repeated information you posted previously.

... Thank you for your time.

[Gwydion]

Bumping old threads and being excessively polite isn't going to change that we already have the answers that SE has given us.

edit:

Man... I'm sorry about that, really I am. But SE answered the questions raised in the thread ages ago. We talked about it ages ago, and the answer has been there the entire time. Necrobumping the thread isn't going to change that. and the tone of your posts sometimes... it just comes across to me as laying it on overtly thick i.e. sucking up. It's hard to not think that, as I realize you have the best of intentions. But can you just.... write normally without 20 buckets of pleasantries?

This knowledge wasn't needed to "remain current" then, it isn't now, and I'm pretty sure SE feels like they've answered the questions about TH to their own satisfaction and likely consider the topic closed.

Having them re-answer the questions they already answered years ago isn't going to magically make THF more relevant. I suspect that if they do actually think THF lacks relevance more than I would argue several other jobs do, t hey would increase it's combat capabilities, not simply reveal details about THF (which again, I don't think are a secret) so you can maybe pick a few pieces of gear from what you're already using.

This really feels like some kind of superstition like the crafting compass. SE has already told us how TH works. People have been hypothesizing that there are some imagined hidden factors at work yet no one has been able to prove that with any testing in the 13+ years since the subject was first raised. You really should just assume that crit does not affect TH procing, there has never been any clear evidence that it does, SE has never said that it did, and it doesn't even make sense any more than facing certain directions while crafting did. Simply gear yourself under the assumption that crit is not a factor. And maybe consider suggesting ways to make THF more relevant beyond simply making TH marginally more effective.

Please don't necrobump a topic unless you have something meaningful to add. You merely repeated information you posted previously.

... Thank you for your time.

Speaking with empathy, is not "sucking up", sir. Let this be a gentle reminder that a person (not AI) is writing and reading these posts:

• How about you offer your opinion on my question? Do you agree or disagree and Why?
• The additive question is relative to Hoxne Ring.
• I speak politely because I'm know that I'm engaging SE employees who are overworked and already spread quite thin as it is.

[Alhanelem]

Speaking with empathy, is not "sucking up", sir. Let this be a gentle reminder that a person (not AI) is writing and reading these posts:

[LIST][*]How about you offer your opinion on my question? Do you agree or disagree and Why?

I believe the answer lies in the rest of the thread. As I noted, we'd already discussed this over a year ago.

I speak politely because I'm know that I'm engaging SE employees who are overworked and already spread quite thin as it is.

I understand that. But I've always felt like a plainly worded, thoughtful comment communicates that on its own. Maybe it's just my neurodiverse nature but unless I make anger or other emotions plain in my language, I usually feel like it's implied that I will appreciate responses and any time spent reading my comment without necessarily saying so every time. I just like to be direct and to the point to the extent I'm able.

The additive question is relative to Hoxne Ring.

Okay, fair enough, as it seems we have a new effect here, so a question regarding this specifically is warranted. But fair question, is this ring competing with anything? I'm not sure there are two other rings with TH+2? It seems like a no-brainer to use it regardless. But I'll admit I'm not fully familiar with all of the relevant gear available, as I don't main THF and only use TH items available to other jobs.

I speak politely because I'm know that I'm engaging SE employees who are overworked and already spread quite thin as it is.

My comment mainly stems from you reposting things you posted previously, and that you re-asked a previously asked question that I frankly feel was already answered by SE as discussed in past conversation. I was fixated on that and didn't notice the item question. Apologies, that error is on me. But the item question didn't necessitate re-posting already-discussed content, in my opinion.


I'm a regular on another forum where people are routinely bumping years old threads without adding anything to them (known as necro-bumping, a typically frowned-upon practice on internet forums)- it doesn't seem like they even check the dates before posting. In this case though, I agree there is something new to cover here. Again, I admittedly glossed over it because of the other content of your post, and once again, I apologize for that.

[Voidstorm]

It's not TH+8 in gear that is the cap but TH8 including gear and traits.
It's understood as you said, that wearing higher TH increases you likelihood to proc a TH upgrade. What you failed to mention is the data leaning heavily toward working on procs with TH9+ not having any further impact on upgrade rate than just staying TH8.

As such, if you just tag an enemy with TH8, then swap to TH3 for the rest of the fight, you are unlikely to get any/many procs at all. If you full time TH8, you should get some upgrade/s depending on the duration of the fight.

At least this is what I have taken from the thread on AH.

[Catmato]

It's not TH+8 in gear that is the cap but TH8 including gear and traits.
It's understood as you said, that wearing higher TH increases you likelihood to proc a TH upgrade. What you failed to mention is the data leaning heavily toward working on procs with TH9+ not having any further impact on upgrade rate than just staying TH8.

As such, if you just tag an enemy with TH8, then swap to TH3 for the rest of the fight, you are unlikely to get any/many procs at all. If you full time TH8, you should get some upgrade/s depending on the duration of the fight.

At least this is what I have taken from the thread on AH.

I don't believe anybody is debating that part. If you look at the grid that Gwydion posted, it's all wearing TH+5 and above. There are some who believe that the TH8 (trait+gear) cap only applies to the initial application and that wearing more than TH8 (TH3 trait + 5 in gear) after that initial application increases the TH upgrade proc rate.

[Voidstorm]

SE, Please replace the proc system with THF getting access to TH9~14 based on gear, traits, and gifts directly.

Also, please increase the not-THF Treasure Hunter cap to 8. ( Full Jeuno Volte set + ammo = 8 )

[Gwydion]

SE, Please replace the proc system with THF getting access to TH9~14 based on gear, traits, and gifts directly.

Also, please increase the not-THF Treasure Hunter cap to 8. ( Full Jeuno Volte set + ammo = 8 )

Honestly, I think it's silly that we have TH+20 or 25 in gear now ...and can't use it effectively. I think the Proc Rate for TH1-7 and 8-14 should be different.