TH Procing

[Dihlyte]

That's the same post I quoted here, but I still can't find any source, be it from the devs themselves or from community testing, stating that equipping TH+ beyond 8 has any effect on the proc rate or anything else.

Please read.

You ask about TH+ 8.

The dev said, and I quote:

when the value of Treasure Hunter placed on a monster and the value of the Treasure Hunter on your character are different, this will cause the growth rate to vary.

TH is essentially a debuff.

When you use TH+8 total, and then proceed to proc to 9, and you remain in only TH+8 total, there is now a difference between your TH value and the enemies TH value.

This will cause the rate to now vary. As there is now a difference between your value, and the enemies value.

If you then proc to 10, and you continue to remain in TH+8 value, there is an even larger difference between your equipment/totals and the enemies total.

This means you encounter a decay, or a loss in your proc rate.

If I am in TH+14, and I proc from 8 to 9, there is no "loss" in difference. As stated by the Developer:

Adding Treasure Hunter+ via equipment, or other means, will not increase the rate at which the Treasure Hunter value grows, as this is a set rate.

So clearly it is being said, that using any TH+ total value below the current enemies value, will not "increase" the rate, but will instead "lower" the rate if your value is lower.

This is a source directly from the developer, clearly stating, that using anything below TH+14 when trying to proc to TH+14 will cause a reduced chance.

Using only TH+8 while trying to proc to TH+10 from TH+9, which:

results in an inefficient means for increasing the TH value.

In other words, it is "important" to use TH+ equipment, removing the need for TH+ equipment,

takes away all the hard work some players have put into maximize their Treasure Hunter.

Thus, they have no plans to change how TH+ equipment affects the system as a whole.

There is your source, that using anything lower than TH+14 will reduce your chances to proc to a total of TH+14 on the enemy.

If you are using only TH+8, trying to proc to 9, 10, any number past 8 will be reduced. As stated by the developer. The source you quoted is the source that says this very information.

[Dihlyte]

You cannot raise the proc rate, but using a TH value lower than the enemies, will lower your chances to proc.

Using only TH+8 to try procing to 10 is inefficient.

Using TH+22 is no better than using TH+14, as 14 is the highest value you can proc.

This is the community now telling you TH+8 is not the most effective means by which attempting to proc to TH+14.

This information is also on BGwiki, and has been:

Example 2: If you plant TH6 on the monster by pulling with your TH gear on and then swap to TH3 to kill the monster, there is a 3-level gap between your current TH level and the monster's current TH level. This makes it comparatively more difficult to proc (approximately a 2% chance per melee round).

https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Treasure_Hunter

As well as FFXIcylopedia:

The chance to increase your TH bonus greatly diminishes with each level of difference between the target's current Treasure Hunter effect and your current Treasure Hunter bonus. For example, if you apply TH8 on a monster, and then drop your TH bonus to 3 by switching equipment, further increments will be that much rarer.

https://ffxiclopedia.fandom.com/wiki/Treasure_Hunter

[Dihlyte]

Finally, adding the last bit of useful information:

In some instances, it is likely "better" to keep an enemy alive for longer, in an attempt to proc to TH+14.

It also is clear, in some cases it is "better" to use only minimal TH+ equipment to maximize damage to eliminate enemies faster.

The player must decide in these instances.

[Gwydion]

Hoping my post doesn't get buried with all of the detailed replies. This is the thread I'm hoping that SE responds to, with 13 likes as of this post:

Combining everyone's input and converting Camate's words with sample data, I've constructed the following tables that I believe illustrate his point.

Assumptions:

1. Base TH Proc Rate is X. (Yellow)
2. Base TH Proc Rate never changes for a positive TH difference between player and monster.
3. Base TH Proc Rate shrinks when TH difference between player and mob is negative.
4. I have assumed a 10% shrinkage (rate of decay) for TH procs below just for illustration purposes.

Questions for SE that will help us players remain current in 2023:

1. Does critical hit rate increase base TH proc rate or subsequent TH proc rates?
2. Does the subsequent TH proc rate shrink when TH difference is negative as implied by Camate?
3. If so, by what amount does the TH proc rate shrink? Can player behavior influence this change outside of wearing more TH+ gear, as described below (and by Camate)?
4. Are personal drop loot (such as Peaches battle, macrocosmic orb campaign, etc). modified by their own Base TH proc rate and a separate rate of decay?

Thank you for so much in advance, even for just reading.

[Catmato]

Please read.

Why start off by being condescending? I'm legit trying to learn.

I've understood the concept from the start; it's not that complicated. I'm not disagreeing or confused with any part of how the upgrade system works, just the cap on TH gear.

Devs have said that TH+ from gear and traits caps at 8. You are saying otherwise. Everything you're basing your replies on assumes that the TH8 cap only applies to the starting point but is bypassed for upgrade procs.

From your own link at https://ffxiclopedia.fandom.com/wiki/Treasure_Hunter

Treasure Hunter+ from equipment stacks with your Job Trait bonus, Atma of Dread, and Treasure Hound, and caps at 8 for Thief as a main job.

Also at bg https://ffxiclopedia.fandom.com/wiki/Treasure_Hunter

With THF as a main job, the effect of equipment, atma, and job ability bonuses on Treasure Hunter is limited to a base of Treasure Hunter +8

Neither source makes any reference to procs bypassing this cap. Neither of them use example numbers for using anything beyond +8. From the start, I've been asking you where this cap bypass information came from.

[Alhanelem]

Far as I'm aware the cap is 8, the examples depict how TH is impacted. so once you pass level 8, the gap increases between the TH on the mob and your TH level which makes it harder to proc.

But this discussion has mainly been about if there are any other factors involved (which no one has provided any evidence for, just a supposition that SE does things secretly/in weird ways therefore there must be secret variables even though SE said otherwise, and asking SE to answer questions even though they already answered them)

[Dihlyte]

Why start off by being condescending? I'm legit trying to learn.

I've understood the concept from the start; it's not that complicated. I'm not disagreeing or confused with any part of how the upgrade system works, just the cap on TH gear.

Devs have said that TH+ from gear and traits caps at 8. You are saying otherwise. Everything you're basing your replies on assumes that the TH8 cap only applies to the starting point but is bypassed for upgrade procs.

From your own link at https://ffxiclopedia.fandom.com/wiki/Treasure_Hunter

Also at bg https://ffxiclopedia.fandom.com/wiki/Treasure_Hunter


Neither source makes any reference to procs bypassing this cap. Neither of them use example numbers for using anything beyond +8. From the start, I've been asking you where this cap bypass information came from.

I'm sorry that was not my intention.

I felt you were not reading what was being said.

I believe personally that the developer cleared up any questions anyone could have.

For me, I will utilize a TH14 THF.

If you will utilize a TH8 THF perhaps that is more beneficial to you.

The important thing is to have fun!

[Catmato]

But this discussion has mainly been about if there are any other factors involved

Yeah, I didn't even touch that part of the discussion because I've never heard of crits or anything else changing the proc rate. Obviously in a very long parse, crits are going to have a slightly increased rate since SA and TA both force crits and have an increased proc chance.

I checked out FFXIAH forums where there's a current discussion with people smarter than me who have suggested that more than TH8 probably doesn't help.

[Alhanelem]

I'm sorry that was not my intention.

I felt you were not reading what was being said.

I believe personally that the developer cleared up any questions anyone could have.

For me, I will utilize a TH14 THF.

If you will utilize a TH8 THF perhaps that is more beneficial to you.

The important thing is to have fun!

Their statement is you cannot obtain TH14 in gear. They aren't disputing that more TH is better than less, that's a given. Thus, once you reach TH8, you're always being penalized by a difference between your TH and that of the mob. And this would seem to be the reason people want to figure out how to optimize.

However, SE themselves said that only TH affects the TH activation rate. So unless SE is being secretly cryptic (like what is being assumed in some cases) there's nothing we can do to affect the proc rate positively once we get to 8. I do not think there is anything THFs can or need to do in order to optimize their game for their key purpose beyond obtaining the maximum TH from gear)

[Gwydion]

Combining everyone's input and converting Camate's words with sample data, I've constructed the following tables that I believe illustrate his point.

Assumptions:

1. Base TH Proc Rate is X. (Yellow)
2. Base TH Proc Rate never changes for a positive TH difference between player and monster.
3. Base TH Proc Rate shrinks when TH difference between player and mob is negative.
4. I have assumed a 10% shrinkage (rate of decay) for TH procs below just for illustration purposes.

Questions for SE that will help us players remain current in 2023:

1. Does critical hit rate increase base TH proc rate or subsequent TH proc rates?
2. Does the subsequent TH proc rate shrink when TH difference is negative as implied by Camate?
3. If so, by what amount does the TH proc rate shrink? Can player behavior influence this change outside of wearing more TH+ gear, as described below (and by Camate)?
4. Are personal drop loot (such as Peaches battle, macrocosmic orb campaign, etc). modified by their own Base TH proc rate and a separate rate of decay?

Thank you for so much in advance, even for just reading.

Bumping in the hopes of a reply from SE. I'm concerned that NA FFXI players simply don't Like posts because they are resigned due to a lack of engagement from SE. We know you guys are super-busy and wear many hats, but please help us out. Thank you.