Red Mage defensive

[Ophannus]

while I totally support a better shield rating for WHM, it is still a job less associated with melee activity,

WHM is a better melee than RDM though so I still fail to see your argument. Hexa-Strike outclasses almost all of our WS except CDC, clubs have far higher base DMG than swords, WHM arguably has better haste pieces than us and can Enspell with Auspice. There is very little if anything that RDM has over WHM for meleeing.

BRD has a B- in Dagger too and they're a better melee than us(Marchx2,can wear Hecatomb gear as well as sky god gear) but they have E in parrying. You can argue that it isn't BRD's primary job to melee but I could say neither is RDM's.

[saevel]

WHM is a better melee than RDM though so I still fail to see your argument. Hexa-Strike outclasses almost all of our WS except CDC, clubs have far higher base DMG than swords, WHM arguably has better haste pieces than us and can Enspell with Auspice. There is very little if anything that RDM has over WHM for meleeing.

BRD has a B- in Dagger too and they're a better melee than us(Marchx2,can wear Hecatomb gear as well as sky god gear) but they have E in parrying. You can argue that it isn't BRD's primary job to melee but I could say neither is RDM's.

Umm what....

This might of been sort true at 75 but WHM is severely crushed in the gear department. Clubs / Hammers suck for DPS, seriously their delay vs damage ratio is the worst in the game. Hexa is ~ok~ compared to the other WS's now available. It only has a 20% STR and MND Mod. Realmrazor is MUCH better WS, it copies fTP, has a stupid fTP to start with but is seven hit (eight with off hand) and 100% MND. This puts it in the boat as asuran fists where DA gear does absolutely nothing for it and it HIGHLY sensitive to accuracy. At capped accuracy you'll only hand all eight hits 66% of the time.

RDM has much better melee gear now then we did at 75, not nearly as good as it should be but definitely better then WHM (and to some extent BRD, depending). For Sword we have CDC which is really nice with Almace, otherwise you have Requiescat, a five hit ws (6 with off hand) that copies fTP, starts at 1.0 and has 100% MND WSC. Unfortunately it also has a -20% attack penalty which cripples it on anything VT or above. Swords also have really good damage vs delay ratio's something that is enhanced by RDM's native enspells. Daggers are also an option, though RDM doesn't have access to the STR dagger we do have the next best thing, Aluh Jambiya. Exenterator is a four hit (five with off hand) WS, doesn't copy fTP and is 100% AGI WSC. It's has lower potential then Requiescat but doesn't suffer from an attack penalty. Then you also have Mercy Stroke, one hit (two with off hand) 3.0 fTP 60% STR WSC. At 95 your looking at a 25% damage boost, at 99 a 40% damage boost. Having seen a 99 Mandau in action I can attest to how epically amazing it is, really high damage for it's delay.

Bard is in a special category as gear-wise it's a little weaker then RDM but not by much. Their saving grace is their buffs are so powerful that they make up for the gear deficient and them some. They also have an angle lure for 3% haste in their ranged slot (changing instruments doesn't reset TP). Relic +2 body is stupid awesome, +25 to attack / acc and +10 to STR /VIT/DEX/AGI makes it their best body piece for pretty much TP and WS. BRD can also use the magian daggers so the STR one is the obvious choice with a 99 Mandau. BRD suffers from what 75 era RDM did but on a slightly bigger scale. Songs take FOREVER to cast and have a relatively short duration. A BRD/NIN will spend quite a bit of time singing their buffs and that will cut into their swinging time. Same situation with a RDM cycling haste.

Anyhow, wanted to dispel the "WHM is better melee then RDM" crap. It was only semi-true at 75 because WHM's could reach the haste cap with blessed+1 gear and RDM's couldn't. Clubs and staves both are pretty bad delay vs damage, though the Crystal staff is pretty decent for Shattersoul spam (100% INT mod for the mages is a good thing due to the sheer amount of INT mages can get). Actually made me wish RDM had a B in staff skill, would make for some interesting builds.

-=Edit=-

Read your post again ... you seriously think RDM has a B- in sword / dagger? RDM's been a B (250@75) since long before I started playing (2003). BRD is B- in dagger (240@75) and C- in sword (220 @75). WHM is a B+ in club (256@75) and a C+ in staff (230). After 75 all skills of C or higher scaled by the EXACT same amount. The difference between B- and B @99 is 10 points, the difference between B and B+ is 6.

@99

A+: 424
A/A-:417

B+: 404
B: 398
B-: 388

C+: 378
C: 373
C-: 368
D: 334

@99 The difference between an A+ weapon and a B weapon is 26 skill or 26 attack and 23 accuracy. That comes out to a 11.5% hit rate difference, not exactly a big difference these days. Skill levels have very little meaning, WAR has a B+ in great sword vs an A+ in great axe, yet many wield that Wagnarok to amazing effect. Heck even without Rag a WAR can swing a Jingang GSWD Res build for some pretty insane damage (Legendary status weapons are obvious superior). So stop getting fixated on skill level and instead look at JA / JT and buffs / gear available.

[Babekeke]

This might of been sort true at 75 but WHM is severely crushed in the gear department. Clubs / Hammers suck for DPS, seriously their delay vs damage ratio is the worst in the game.

OK, let me stop you right there. Let's have a look at what are considered the best weapons for all 3 weapons you're comparing here:

Almace 99: DMG 70 DPS 18.75
Mandau 99: DMG 55 DPS 18.75
Mjollnir 99: DMG 93 DPS 18.12

Almace and Mandau have a 3.4% higher DPS, whereas Mjollnir has a 32.8% higher base damage than Almace and a 69% higher base dmg than Mandau.

Off the AH options:

Apaisante +1 (Sword): 60 DMG 16.22 DPS
Vejovis Wand +1 (Club): 56 DMG 16 DPS
Aluh Jambiya (Dagger): 51 DMG 15.22 DPS

Not a great deal in them, with dagger being a little way behind, but having better stats in the STR and att. Certainly not worthy of the statement:

Clubs / Hammers suck for DPS, seriously their delay vs damage ratio is the worst in the game.

Trial weapons are very close for dagger and club, though sword pulls away a little here.

Shikargar (Sword) DMG 61 DPS 15.91
Tutunui (Club) DMG 52 DPS 14.86
Thokcha (Dagger) DMG 47 DPS 14.84

[saevel]

OK, let me stop you right there. Let's have a look at what are considered the best weapons for all 3 weapons you're comparing here:

Almace 99: DMG 70 DPS 18.75
Mandau 99: DMG 55 DPS 18.75
Mjollnir 99: DMG 93 DPS 18.12

Almace and Mandau have a 3.4% higher DPS, whereas Mjollnir has a 32.8% higher base damage than Almace and a 69% higher base dmg than Mandau.

Off the AH options:

Apaisante +1 (Sword): 60 DMG 16.22 DPS
Vejovis Wand +1 (Club): 56 DMG 16 DPS
Aluh Jambiya (Dagger): 51 DMG 15.22 DPS

Not a great deal in them, with dagger being a little way behind, but having better stats in the STR and att. Certainly not worthy of the statement:


Trial weapons are very close for dagger and club, though sword pulls away a little here.

Shikargar (Sword) DMG 61 DPS 15.91
Tutunui (Club) DMG 52 DPS 14.86
Thokcha (Dagger) DMG 47 DPS 14.84

Should of added "with the exception of Relic Hammer".

And those are incorrect numbers. You'll eventually figure out where you messed up copying from wiki.

Here is a clue, Mandau crush's all of them in melee DPS.

[Babekeke]

And those are incorrect numbers. You'll eventually figure out where you messed up copying from wiki.

Here is a clue, Mandau crush's all of them in melee DPS.

OK, I have to concede to your holiness. I have no idea where I went wrong with the DPS figures, unless you're referring to the additional effect: poison.

I got the figures from BG wiki, and have now triple-checked them with wikipedia and ffxiah and they all say 18.75 for mandau and almace.

Unless you haven't looked since 75 and just assumed that Mandau is still the ruler of all that is DPS.

[Ophannus]

BRD songs last quite a while with all the new Enhances Song Duration gear as well as Troubadour. Songs can last like 5ish minutes or so. Also Nightingale makes songs insta-cast.

[saevel]

BRD songs last quite a while with all the new Enhances Song Duration gear as well as Troubadour. Songs can last like 5ish minutes or so. Also Nightingale makes songs insta-cast.

Yes and now. Troubadour makes songs take FOREVER to cast, using Nightingale makes them normal speed again. That is why BRD's tend to stack those two when doing their buff rotations.

Take Minuet V for example, 8s cast time 24s recast, 2 min duration.

Troubadour makes it 12s cast time and 4min duration, Nightingale would knock it down to 6s, at 5/5 makes it something like 1~2s or so (not quite instant cast but close) checked and it's insta-cast at 5/5. I'm not a BRD so I'm not absolutely positive how much +duration they can get, our 99 G.horn BRD seems to get about ~7min on his songs. Those JA's are 10m recast so your going to have a set of songs without them, and if your a Dura BRD then your talking four songs at a time.

Puts BRD into an interesting position, they have access to most of the gear and weapons to make a decent hybrid DD, along with buffs, AoE CC and Elegy. Too bad this game has no real content that plays to that style.

[Demon6324236]

If you cap both, and use both, your buffs are instant, not normal speed.

[Crimson_Slasher]

If you cap both, and use both, your buffs are instant, not normal speed.

This here is true as far as i can tell, ive used both extensively lately myself and have been casting chainspell speeds, usually dont have time to see the song cast after swapping instruments even. Still though, there isnt short enough recast or long enough song recast to keep the abilities up fulltime when buffing, so i usually have to do a cycle of one up with N/T, and one or two with N/T down. Same applies to marcato sadly.

[saevel]

Out of interest though, is there any info out there with the stats of mobs? I know that the info was found for greater colibri in the past, and now there are stats for a couple of abyssea NMs and maybe a VWNM or 2, but I'm more interested in the sort of thing that you might actually melee a RDM on (ok RDM could happily melee in Abyssea and it's not hard to cap any stat there), like dynamis mobs, both EP and DC. Is a mob's VIT on-par with say a Hume's VIT of that job and that level?

Studio Gobi and some other JP site had a good database for awhile. They figured out the formula SE used to determine base stats for monsters (Race / Class combos). You can kinda look it up

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.geocities.co.jp/Playtown-Part/6371/&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.geocities.co.jp/Playtown-Part/6371/%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-USfficial%26hs%3DgTo

http://www32.atwiki.jp/studiogobli/
Its (Main Rank + Sub Rank + Racial Bonus)
Take a Level 99/49 Goblin WAR/WAR
Goblins have E rank in VIT, WAR is D Rank in VIT,

Rank D is (3 + (Lv-1) * 0.35)
(37 + 19 + 32) = 88 VIT

That's just a guess though, often monsters will have small bonus's the developers insert. It'll get you in the same ballpark through.

Colibri are E rank VIT and considered RDM/RDM in general for stats
99/49 RDM would be E in VIT so E + E + E.
E is [3 + (Lv-1) * 0.30]
(32 + 17 + 32) = 81VIT.

So you can kinda ball park it out.