Blue mage treasure hunter trait is too overpowered

[Metaking]

no unbalanced is the fact bst pets don't need a super weapon to let there pets break pdt cap, and can do it with very little loss to there own output, only way i could see to make both sides happy is if you got a pet th item that had latent effect th+1 that only worked during run wild ^^/

[Malthar]

Talk about hypocritical! A blue mage is in no way shape or form a thief, but pets whose jobs are thf's qualify for the TH3. That's why jug pets deserve the traits of their jobs more than blue mage. Further, this isn't about bst. If I wanted to make a post about bst I'd make a post in the bst forums.

[Metaking]

well actually blu would be a little bit of almost all jobs in this games cannon rember were a prison of souls we HAVE your pets souls for instance >.> . now if were going to act like how bst and blu work in other ff games, remember this bst is generally a very hard to use weak job that makes there pets do everything, in this ff your a pretty fucking solid dd(A hand axe skill, blus dont even have that in sword) without your pet and you want a pet = to your level with all the stats and traits of a thf = to your level and still want to be a solid dd at the same time yes? ...... yea that's not going to happen, maby if se nurfed your combat ability down to say C combat skills and dropped you to light dd gear only, then maby you would have a case to cry over the minor nurf your pets got, if you really wanna fight for better game balance go fight se over how bad off smn got it, seance in every other FF they appear in smns are one of the most powerful jobs you can get.

[Babekeke]

Now here's a proposed solution. Either take blue mage off the tarutaru sash or introduce a new piece of gear that gives pet treasure hunter +1. I'm not one for gimping one job to elevate another, so my preferred solution is to introduce a new piece of gear offering pet: treasure hunter +1.

It's the only way to be sure.

Talk about hypocritical! ~ This isn't about bst. If I wanted to make a post about bst I'd make a post in the bst forums.

Oh, really?

[Mayoyama]

Let me repost the message for you because obviously you failed reading comprehension.

Either take blue mage off the tarutaru sash or introduce a new piece of gear that gives pet treasure hunter +1.

The bolded statement says it all.

Ya bolded part does say it all... your saying "if BST cant achieve TH2 with gear.. why should blu??"

Nothing wrong with my comprehension at all

[Malthar]

Ok there Mittens. Take what you need and dump the rest. The world is just an etch-a-sketch, after all.

[Nawesemo]

So, s.e should lock reward when using a thf pet? It's brilliant!!! I like it.

Isn't jumping to conclusions cool? >:\

[Afania]

well my counter is more to the fact he says there is not a balance, which i say he is wrong
Bst = extremely safe farming (gotta get swarmed by like 3-5 dc's before your pet is even remotely in danger)
blu = highest single drop potential (kill speed + th2)
thf = safe farming(massive evasion) + best per mob drops(th7 tho slow kill rate)
Dnc = safe farming(less than thf but still really high evasion)+ can easily lock subjob and farm white procs to beat even a lucky blu on overall currency a run
nin = ok fine nins have a right to be upset with the balance job ability spam hurts there main advantage of massive dw and i think because of evasion job traits actually have lower evasion than a dnc out the door
pup = actually i hear farm currency rather well no personal experience but if any job should get pet th it would be them, there pets are considerably more....... mortal than bst pets >.>;

So many wrong info in above statement.......

To correct some of the info on above statement, from what I've know:

BLU has even safer farming than majority of jobs there, due to 9+ shadow and AoE sleep x2. BLU can also swarm by 5+ DC mob, sleep them all, log out to lose hate if you don't want to fight them all. It's fairly easy to deal with massive link on BLU, but not so much on DNC and THF. If DNC THF mass aggro DCs, they're dead pretty soon too without shadow and AoE sleep(unless THF flee/hide etc). I did not say this myself, many DNC and THF dyna soloer told me they often had hard time dealing with massive link too.

Evasion rating isn't what makes it safe or not, on DC it may make a bit difference, but majority of time it's not what determined how safe it is to solo dyna. Evasion has a cap, even at capped evasion you're gonna get hit 1 out of every 5 hit. Imagine how fast you lose HP when there are 5~7 mobs attacking you on the same time. If DNC THF mass aggro 7 mobs, even at capped evasion you're gonna get hit fairly often still. Fat chance is that BLU will survive better than DNC THF in such situations.

It's fairly easy to cap evasion on EP mobs or close to cap, so C rank evasion(plus evasion job trait from /DNC) doesn't matter on BLU, cuz you'll be capping or close to capping evasion on EP anyways. Once you can cap/close to cap evasion on C rank skill level, it doesn't matter if your evasion rating is C or B or A or S, because you will evade 4 hit out of 5 times no matter what level your evasion is.

You shouldn't be solo farming DC, and if you really do DC, the long stun duration from sudden lunge also makes it safer than pure evasion jobs.

Another thing about evasion is, NIN/DNC has higher evasion than DNC and THF, it's in fact, most evasive job in this game. So saying NIN has lower evasion than DNC is incorrect based on current info.

Put gear/merit/race difference aside, a THF/DNC has 424 evasion skill and evasion bonus V(+60), based on bg-wiki's info, 1 evasion skill=0.9 evasion, which equals to 381 evasion. 441 evasion total.

A DNC/THF or DNC/00 has 404 skill, plus evasion bonus IV+ 48, and closed position merit +15, so total of 426

NIN/DNC has 417 skill, plus evasion bouns II from SJ+ 22, Yonin for +30, and Kurayami for -30 acc, that's like 457. Even without Kurayami but just yonin, it still has higher eva than DNC, with Kurayami it beats THF.

However, what makes NIN bad for dyna solo isn't evasion rating, it's in fact, it has no TH.

As for PUP, the advantage of PUP is, PUP can get TH2 while farming in dyna, cuz they can proc JA with /THF, other job pretty much has to /DNC to proc JA.

Also it's commonly believed that DNC/00 has lower coin gain in the long run due to lack of TH. So DNC solo is DNC/THF only.

So to summerize the advantage/disadvantage of each dyna solo job:
BLU/DNC: Has TH2, can AoE sleep, stun lock mobs, plauge to avoid TP moves, access to all 3 type of proc in case it's needed, fast kill for both TE and the mob. But the down side is that you need gear to gain TH2 access, which not everyone has.

BST/DNC: Has lower skill and gear requirement, but only TH1. Need to use items and spend gil. Faster proc than many other jobs there. Ability to hold 2 mobs.


THF/DNC: Higher TH than other jobs, but you pretty much need elite gear such as Mandau to kill fast enough. Has flee/hide etc, but other wise not very easy to deal with mass aggro.

DNC/THF: TH2, decent killing speed, but not as good as BLU and BST to deal with mass aggro.

PUP/THF: TH2 too, low competition on camp, good dmg output.

Any other job, such as MNK NIN SAM etc, shouldn't be consider as dyna solo job because you can't get TH.

Is BLU TH2 overpowered in dyna? In practice, 3 jobs(THF PUP DNC) I listed above can get TH2 but doesn't require any gear grind, while BLU TH2 needs gear grind. So how does that overpower? Although BST only got TH1, you also have faster proc, ability to hold 2 mobs, less gear requirement to farm efficiently etc, the result is, BST with just TH1 isn't really inferior to jobs with TH2 in terms of efficiency too...majority of players still use BST to farm in dyna. So how does BLU with TH1+1 overpowered when majority of ppl still solo dyna on BST?

In pt situations and outside of dyna, if you need TH, you bring real THF, so it still doesn't matter if BLU has TH2, because BLU will never get invited specifically for TH when THF can do higher TH, and other jobs can TH2 with /THF too.

BLU TH is just fine as it is, TH2 isn't handed to BLU, it requires work and gear grind too, and BLU will suffer from dmg lose by setting TH job trait, it's not like BLU just pop TH2 out of nowhere, and TH2 on BLU really has little importance and almost zero impact to the game/pt setup. If today BLU has access to TH5, then maybe it's a bit overpowered. But TH2? Lol, any job can TH2 with /THF, and nobody invite a job to TH2 it when they can have higher TH from other jobs too.

Any job gets TH2 with /THF, I fail to see how BLU gets TH2 is overpowered.

[Afania]

Still irrelevant. Blue's having access to th2 without subbing /thf does not fit SE's hierarchy.

It still fits hierarchy perfectly. SE said TH is as follows, but didn't say TH hunter hierarchy when gears are being count.

THF
RNG
job/THF
other jobs

BLU with TH job trait still inferior to any job /THF, and only equal, but not superior to any job/THF.

So naked BLU is rank 4, among other jobs.

BLU sacrificing other job trait and spent quite a lot of effort to grind gear is only the same as "THF job support", but didn't beat them. Any job /THF doesn't need to grind gear/sacrifice JT to get rank 3, how does BLU superior to rank3?

Fits SE's hierarchy in every way from what I've seen. It only doesn't fit if it went above THF job support, and entered the range of ranger and THF, but it doesn't.

Now you're going to say, it isn't fair that BLU doesn't need to sacrifice SJ to get TH2, while other job does. However, if you count the fact that you're going to waste 12 set point on a job trait for potentially other job trait on BLU, then it isn't really overpowered.

Say for example, a DNC/THF v.s BLU/WAR with TH job trait set.

Both job gets TH2, so they have equal tier of TH.

DNC has DW 4 job trait, evasion bonus 4, crit-hit attack bonus 3, skill chain bonus 4, conserve TP etc.

BLU/WAR if you set TH, after auto-refresh and DW3 job trait, you won't have much slot left for other job trait if you still want stun/sleep etc. You won't have enough set point for triple attack, evasion bonus(not even tier 1), store TP etc, while other job /THF doesn't sacrifice any job trait for TH. DNC(and other jobs) still keeps their evasion bonus/DW/crit-hit attack job trait etc, while BLU has to sacrifice some of the job trait for TH. You won't have multiple sleeps and so on. SJ slot is just making it up. The result is, BLU doesn't "gain" more job trait compare with other job /THF.

As I said before, if BLU gets TH7 or something, then yes it's overpowered. But how does it overpower if it only gets TH2 from gear, and doesn't went above Thief job support?

If your problem is that BLU gets TH gear but BST doesn't, and it's unfair, then you went to the wrong forum.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

It still fits hierarchy perfectly. SE said TH is as follows, but didn't say TH hunter hierarchy when gears are being count.

THF
RNG
job/THF
other jobs

BLU with TH job trait still inferior to any job /THF, and only equal, but not superior to any job/THF.

So naked BLU is rank 4, among other jobs.

BLU sacrificing other job trait and spent quite a lot of effort to grind gear is only the same as "THF job support", but didn't beat them. Any job /THF doesn't need to grind gear/sacrifice JT to get rank 3, how does BLU superior to rank3?

Fits SE's hierarchy in every way from what I've seen. It only doesn't fit if it went above THF job support, and entered the range of ranger and THF, but it doesn't.

Now you're going to say, it isn't fair that BLU doesn't need to sacrifice SJ to get TH2, while other job does. However, if you count the fact that you're going to waste 12 set point on a job trait for potentially other job trait on BLU, then it isn't really overpowered.

Say for example, a DNC/THF v.s BLU/WAR with TH job trait set.

Both job gets TH2, so they have equal tier of TH.

DNC has DW 4 job trait, evasion bonus 4, crit-hit attack bonus 3, skill chain bonus 4, conserve TP etc.

BLU/WAR if you set TH, after auto-refresh and DW3 job trait, you won't have much slot left for other job trait if you still want stun/sleep etc. You won't have enough set point for triple attack, evasion bonus(not even tier 1), store TP etc, while other job /THF doesn't sacrifice any job trait for TH. DNC(and other jobs) still keeps their evasion bonus/DW/crit-hit attack job trait etc, while BLU has to sacrifice some of the job trait for TH. You won't have multiple sleeps and so on. SJ slot is just making it up. The result is, BLU doesn't "gain" more job trait compare with other job /THF.

As I said before, if BLU gets TH7 or something, then yes it's overpowered. But how does it overpower if it only gets TH2 from gear, and doesn't went above Thief job support?

If your problem is that BLU gets TH gear but BST doesn't, and it's unfair, then you went to the wrong forum.

So basically, by the same though pattern a BST with TH+1 GEAR would be the same.