Pet th - Just hear me out

[tyrantsyn]

Animated flourish is not consider a voke in that combo?

lol, you know I know you know its not.

LoL /sigh
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Animated_Flourish

just go away.

[Nawesemo]

Its on the internet it must be true!!!! Have a dnc, and a war their thing, watch where the mob goes, annimated florish is annimated florish, provoke is provoke, if they were the same the would be well, the same, they are not, try again.

[Camiie]

Camiie and Frank, nothing you've said about why BSTs should get more TH wouldn't apply to DNC. Should DNC not get more TH by those rationales?

WHY BST AND NOT EVERYBODY ELSE?

The pet in question is a THF. Pets get the traits of the jobs they possess. At level 90, THF gets the TH3 trait. At level 90 Yuly, being a THF, should also get the TH3 trait along with I and II since it is automatically beyond the levels for those. A DNC is not a THF and does not get TH traits on its own. I'm not sure why this is so difficult to understand.

[Arcon]

The pet in question is a THF. Pets get the traits of the jobs they possess. At level 90 THF gets the TH3 trait. At level 90 Yuly, being a THF, should also get the TH3 trait along with I and II. A DNC is not a THF. I'm not sure why this is so difficult to understand.

Why just traits, why not spells? Why not job abilities? Why not combat skills and the associated weapons and weapon skills? Because pets are not players. Pets (as well as monsters) only have access to a subset of what's available to players. It's always been this way. Granted, it didn't manifest much in traits before, but that's just an arbitrary difference. Why traits but nothing else?

TH especially is an extremely powerful trait, more than most people give it credit for. TH2 over TH1 means you only have to kill two mobs instead of three, on average, to get your drop. Thus it saves you about 33% of your farming time (on single drops, unaffected by weakness staggers or anything other than TH). That is a huge difference. One that's worth subbing THF for, if you wanna reduce the amount of farming you want to do for a specific drop.

[Malthar]

Oh, and here comes Arcon. The lead singer in the choir of bst haters. You are late, sir.

Beastmasters do not have jug pets that can cast spells. They can charm pets that cast spells, however, and sic will actually allow these pets to cast spells if they're not in melee range; a worm, for example.

Pets cannot equip weapons so they don't have access to weaponskills. They do, however, possess the job traits for their jobs.

And as far as pets not being players, well, they may not be controlled by a human directly, but they are considered characters, essentially players, hence the acronym NPC.

TH is powerful? Really? Can TH 1-shot a mob? Does TH provide the additional effect "death" per proc? I think not.

Get your head on straight before you post and stop trolling the bst forums.

[FrankReynolds]

Why just traits, why not spells? Why not job abilities? Why not combat skills and the associated weapons and weapon skills? Because pets are not players. Pets (as well as monsters) only have access to a subset of what's available to players. It's always been this way. Granted, it didn't manifest much in traits before, but that's just an arbitrary difference. Why traits but nothing else?

TH especially is an extremely powerful trait, more than most people give it credit for. TH2 over TH1 means you only have to kill two mobs instead of three, on average, to get your drop. Thus it saves you about 33% of your farming time (on single drops, unaffected by weakness staggers or anything other than TH). That is a huge difference. One that's worth subbing THF for, if you wanna reduce the amount of farming you want to do for a specific drop.

There is a reason that you rarely ever see bsts (or any other job really) subbing thf. It offers no other benefit besides TH. Especially when soloing. The loss of kill speed and survival abilities from subbing thf almost completely (if not completely) negates the benefit of increased drops.

What's more, you still haven't explained how a TH3 pet is going to hurt some other job. I play thief all the time. At no point has anyone ever said "hey, can you swap to beast so we can get better drops?". If it takes bsts %33 less time to farm things, how is that any different from that guy switching to thief and how does that harm you either way?

The argument "This job can't have this ability because some other job has it" is broken logic in that there have always been jobs with the same / similar abilities since the release of this game. By that logic, pup (for example) would have to be completely removed from the game, as PUP and it's pet do almost nothing that isn't taken from another job.

[scaevola]

There is a reason that you rarely ever see bsts (or any other job really) subbing thf. It offers no other benefit besides TH. Especially when soloing. The loss of kill speed and survival abilities from subbing thf almost completely (if not completely) negates the benefit of increased drops.

the hits just keep on coming!

This argument can apply to literally any subjob. When I play SAM, I can sub DNC to heal myself a bit but I lose some offensive capability from not subbing WAR. Does this mean SAM should get Berserk?

What's more, you still haven't explained how a TH3 pet is going to hurt some other job. I play thief all the time. At no point has anyone ever said "hey, can you swap to beast so we can get better drops?". If it takes bsts %33 less time to farm things, how is that any different from that guy switching to thief and how does that harm you either way?

It hurts the game, because a good game involves meaningful choices and meaningful choices involve giving something else up.

The argument "This job can't have this ability because some other job has it" is broken logic in that there have always been jobs with the same / similar abilities since the release of this game. By that logic, pup (for example) would have to be completely removed from the game, as PUP and it's pet do almost nothing that isn't taken from another job.

PUP can't do all these things at the same time. You use Soulsoother to get healing and sacrifice damage from Sharpshot, etc. Meaningful choices.

Maybe Courier Carrie could get TH3?

[scaevola]

The pet in question is a THF. Pets get the traits of the jobs they possess. At level 90, THF gets the TH3 trait. At level 90 Yuly, being a THF, should also get the TH3 trait along with I and II since it is automatically beyond the levels for those. A DNC is not a THF and does not get TH traits on its own. I'm not sure why this is so difficult to understand.

The idea that a mobs job should dictate what traits it gets with no regard to how those traits might otherwise affect the game basically means you think WAR mobs should get Fencer back.

[Nawesemo]

The everly elusive "balance" grasshopper, balance. It is bst only that can call yuly, and splitting the hair so to speak about its abilities not being unique to bst, is fail. It would be bst only w/ thf 3 and not have to sub /thf... And stilllll get to use /dnc, ... =unbalanced. When every other job (save blus weenie thf2, and, oooooo real thfs) has to sub thf to get. Your on the wanting end of this so we get why you don't get it. It can't, and shouldn't have happen(ed). It's as silly a thought as a blm wanting to have thf 3 attached to stone 2..... Think about it.

[Arcon]

Oh, and here comes Arcon. The lead singer in the choir of bst haters. You are late, sir.

I didn't have anything to say that others didn't say before now. Despite what you think, I'm not on a crusade against BST. I just think not all ideas are good, and this one isn't. Same as your last few ideas. Not everyone's creativity is beneficial to the community.

And as far as pets not being players, well, they may not be controlled by a human directly, but they are considered characters, essentially players, hence the acronym NPC.

So "non-player character" is "essentially [a] player" in your book? In what universe does that make sense?

TH is powerful? Really? Can TH 1-shot a mob? Does TH provide the additional effect "death" per proc? I think not.

Movement speed also can't 1-shot a mob. Does that mean it's not powerful? Not everything powerful is related to damage. What do you consider more powerful, an ability which kills a mob instantly, but disables any drops or an ability that gimps your damage by half but gives you guaranteed drops?

What's more, you still haven't explained how a TH3 pet is going to hurt some other job. I play thief all the time. At no point has anyone ever said "hey, can you swap to beast so we can get better drops?". If it takes bsts %33 less time to farm things, how is that any different from that guy switching to thief and how does that harm you either way?

It's not harmful to anyone, that doesn't mean it's a good idea. It wouldn't hurt anyone if WHM got a 0 MP, no enmity, instant-cast Curaga X. It would actually benefit a lot of other people too. Although one could argue that at least this idea is still somehow related to what the job actually does, which can't be said for BST and TH.

I simply see no reason at all for this. It's not required from a game-play perspective, nor does it make sense from a role-playing point of view. And most of all, for all this arguing it's still one of the minor issues BST should have with the job at this point (some of which were pointed out before), so complaining about it while SE basically already shot it down just seems completely pointless and arbitrary.