Pet th - Just hear me out

[scaevola]

Never post here but did you really just compare a nearly full tp regain to like 5% boost(if that) in common drops? That is almost equal to a brews TP regain without the attack boost.

No; since Komori's argument is that BSTs ought to get TH3 for no other reason than that they used to have it, her logic ought to apply to me getting 70 TP Pentas back.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum

[hiko]

If I could spend 100k for a stack of twelve items that would each give me TH3 for an hour, you bet your sweet ass I would be using it pretty much constantly.



In the interests of solidarity, can I expect a post from you demanding I get 70+ TP Penta Thrusts back?

with current STP trait/gear you'd get 100TP pentas (gogo farm ws proc mob)

[Caketime]

No; since Komori's argument is that BSTs ought to get TH3 for no other reason than that they used to have it, her logic ought to apply to me getting 70 TP Pentas back.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum

Penta's TP return was a bug, all multi-hit WS used to give high TP return. BST pets with TH were put in on purpose and only later removed due to tears. Penta spam sucked anyway, it made DRG a gimmick job with no other options until the devs addressed their disadvantages, but that's a story for another day.

Our pets all have jobs, and job traits just like we do, that's how the game was designed. Who are you to pick and choose which traits are OK and not OK for our pets to have? Whether you agree with it or not, the TH nerf was wrong and undeserved, and I still can't fathom why anyone is still blindly defending it, or coming up with asinine arguments as to why it was needed. I'd like to hear a reasonable argument as to exactly why the BST nerf was justified, something that will actually prove that it was overpowered, that BST was unbalancing the entire game, etc. All I've heard so far is "BST is mean!" and something like "TH allows BST to farm slightly faster, and that is terrible! They should sub THF like I'm not doing because I have a second account!"

[Arcon]

Penta's TP return was a bug, all multi-hit WS used to give high TP return.

It was not a bug, it was a feature. It was not "high TP", it was regular TP. Each hit of the WS gave normal TP return. It wasn't until they saw how broken it was (MNK with relic H2H spamming Asuran fists with zero delay) that they decided to nerf it to make all subsequent hits just add 1 TP instead.

Whether you agree with it or not, the TH nerf was wrong and undeserved, and I still can't fathom why anyone is still blindly defending it, or coming up with asinine arguments as to why it was needed.

Asked and answered:

Who are you to pick and choose which traits are OK and not OK for our pets to have?

So us saying what's OK or not OK is wrong, but you saying it is fine?

I'd like to hear a reasonable argument as to exactly why the BST nerf was justified, something that will actually prove that it was overpowered, that BST was unbalancing the entire game, etc.

Because TH is a massive upgrade of convenience, one that other jobs have to sacrifice a lot of damage potential, survivability or utility for to obtain. And considering that BST wasn't even on SE's ranked list of jobs that should be able to attain TH at all, it's still doing a lot better than it deserves by SE's standard. I'm pretty sure the only reason they didn't remove it entirely was to not upset BST further, otherwise they would have.

[Caketime]

It was not a bug, it was a feature. It was not "high TP", it was regular TP. Each hit of the WS gave normal TP return. It wasn't until they saw how broken it was (MNK with relic H2H spamming Asuran fists with zero delay) that they decided to nerf it to make all subsequent hits just add 1 TP instead.

No, it was a bug that needed to be fixed and was only glaringly obvious when Asuran Fists spam became popular.

So us saying what's OK or not OK is wrong, but you saying it is fine?

I never said that, which is why you are asking a question instead of making a statement.

Because TH is a massive upgrade of convenience, one that other jobs have to sacrifice a lot of damage potential, survivability or utility for to obtain. And considering that BST wasn't even on SE's ranked list of jobs that should be able to attain TH at all, it's still doing a lot better than it deserves by SE's standard. I'm pretty sure the only reason they didn't remove it entirely was to not upset BST further, otherwise they would have.

You're talking about sacrificing damage potential when farming, which is hilarious, and your entire argument boils down to "It's unfair!!!" which is equally hilarious. Our job has pets which also have jobs, and those jobs come with traits, Treasure Hunter happens to be one of those. It makes sense to me, and apparently it did to SE or they wouldn't have implemented them on purpose in the first place. The nerf itself is an example of public outcry and SE's hamfisted way of "fixing" the problem that was only a problem due to "me too!" dickbags that just want to exploit the flavor of the month to gain a slight edge, and guess what? Those people were never even affected by SE's solution in the first place, those of us who enjoy the job are the only ones still feeling it.

P.S.: Please outline SE standards so we can pinpoint exactly what is deserved. Thanks.

[Komori]

If it weren't for the high evasion that comes with them being a THF, I'd ask for them to be switched to something like WAR or an actual decent MNK pet or something for more attack power.

But we do still need an evasion tank pet, so meh. I guess we're looking at a nerf to all pets soon, removing any trait for them at all since pets with their job traits is overpowered. Ironically the community agrees that the one that affects nothing but drop rate and adds nothing else is the one that stings the most that we have.

[FrankReynolds]

Because TH is a massive upgrade of convenience, one that other jobs have to sacrifice a lot of damage potential, survivability or utility for to obtain. And considering that BST wasn't even on SE's ranked list of jobs that should be able to attain TH at all, it's still doing a lot better than it deserves by SE's standard. I'm pretty sure the only reason they didn't remove it entirely was to not upset BST further, otherwise they would have.

BSTs give up damage / utility to equip the THF pet just like other jobs do to sub THF. BST getting some extra currency, or soloing something big, incredibly slowly does not make the game unbalanced for other jobs.

[Nawesemo]

BSTs give up damage / utility to equip the THF pet just like other jobs do to sub THF. BST getting some extra currency, or soloing something big, incredibly slowly does not make the game unbalanced for other jobs.

No more than a Blm casting between fire and thunder..... It's a function of the main job, they lose nothing, ..... Are we being serious here?, because I can't tell.

[Komori]

I don't get your point, Nawesemo. A BST could kill signifigantly faster using a pet such as Gorefang etc. I've trio'd dynamis with my BST with a THF and DRK. And with a THF present I used Gorefang and the killspeed was ridiculous. We do less damage to gain TH from Falcorr or Yuly. It's the same issue of why would you go in Dynamis on THF, you have lower killspeed as a THF in Dynamis, but you have oodles of TH. So...it's the same situation.

[Arcon]

No, it was a bug that needed to be fixed and was only glaringly obvious when Asuran Fists spam became popular.

You have your definitions wrong. A bug is erroneous behavior, not unexpected behavior. This was unexpected behavior. Same as BST TH, see below.

You're talking about sacrificing damage potential when farming, which is hilarious, and your entire argument boils down to "It's unfair!!!" which is equally hilarious.

Why is that hilarious? That is entirely natural and the only reasonable thing to assume. Why should you be best at one situation and simultaneously the best at another?

Our job has pets which also have jobs, and those jobs come with traits, Treasure Hunter happens to be one of those. It makes sense to me, and apparently it did to SE or they wouldn't have implemented them on purpose in the first place.

They didn't. Pets having jobs has nothing at all to do with it. Pets aren't players, same rules don't apply and never did. If they did pets could be geared up and buffed and BST would effectively be two people at once. It seems that's your rationale for other people having a mule.

P.S.: Please outline SE standards so we can pinpoint exactly what is deserved. Thanks.

SE said themselves what order they want jobs to have TH in. I didn't make it up. I don't have the post here right now, if you're interested you can look it up or just not believe me.

BSTs give up damage / utility to equip the THF pet just like other jobs do to sub THF. BST getting some extra currency, or soloing something big, incredibly slowly does not make the game unbalanced for other jobs.

I don't get your point, Nawesemo. A BST could kill signifigantly faster using a pet such as Gorefang etc.

So why don't you go /THF and use a better pet? What's this entire debate about then?