Empyrean weapon needed adjustments

[Rambus]

If you work out the math, against a 346 DEF / 77 VIT / 77 AGI enemy (approximately a Dynamis monster, as far as I can tell), the maximum average damages with ideal gear outside Abyssea is:
Dancing Edge - 1709 damage
Rudra's Storm - 1301 damage
Pyrrhic Kleos - 1414 damage
Evisceration - 1523 damage

So I remembered 100 damage off for each of them, but the basic story is the same. I'd need to do 1333 damage with Twashtar between WSs to make up the damage lost between Dancing Edge and Pyrrhic Kleos. In a perfect world I could alternate WSs and go either Rudra's -> Dancing Edge -> Rudra's or Rudra's -> DEx2 -> Rudra's, the latter of which would definitely make Aftermath worth it for me but requires a bard.

I don't know, bottom line is that I don't see a compelling reason to make Aftermath apply only to the main hand (apart from keeping 2H DDs on top at the expense of 1H DDs).

Rudra's Storm > Evisceration> darkness is more damage then spaming DE by your numbers.

and DNC was not ment to be a pure DD ( even though it can be amzaing on this focus) it can heal too.

But I am not sure how you can consider that number on a crit ws that has DEX mod too seems strange.

the thing is if you make that ODD trigger on offhand on DW it can for THF and that be way to much damage.

the ODD on double attack is OP though in the aspect of mythics and relics.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Average outside Abyssea assuming no Minuets or Chaos Roll, not maximum. DNC with Red Curry Buns, so not SA-WS either.

Oh DNC, that explains it. lol

[TearValerin]

The problem with Rudra's Storm iss it's lack of a chance to critical, relying on a forced crit every 2 minutes. It's not like it matters when DNC has access to so many other chains for self-darkness, that it doesn't really matter. Twastar + AF3+2 set bonus + AM is pretty scary for a job that isnt a primary damage dealer that can near cap its delay reduction. Stinky ws doesn't equate to needing buffs on a weapon though :|.

The skills that need help the most are ones like Cammlanns Torment (lolwheelingthrust) that make you wonder why bother when the mythic is just that much better.

[Yugl]

"I'm sick of hearing people make a general claim about the relic-holder population regarding gil buying and I'll prove my point by giving my personal story on how I worked X amount of years farming fire crystals to afford one. Of course, my personal story triumphs over a generalization because it and it alone describes how all relics were obtained."

I could see what people doing the above meant if they were talking about majority of the population in terms of weight. However, I think there's more than 1.9999999 relic holders.

[Dew]

Some people just don't get it, it doesn't matter if it took you 2-4yrs to finish a Mythic or Relic. Good for you, feel accomplished. Yes, I'm still working on my Relic that I have slowly been working on for 6yrs. Do I care that it's taking me so long to finish a weapon that won't be uber and the best forever? Nope. What matters it that I am accomplishing that and that is my goal. Just because it takes you that long doesn't mean that it should take everyone that long to get a top of the line weapon.

People saying that means that if it took me say 4yrs to get a certain AF2 piece that it should be powered up more and be the best? No, just because it takes so long to get something doesn't mean it should be the best forever.

Be glad that SE is putting in trials for all the Relics and Mythics. They could of simply left them Lv.75. The fact that are slowly upgrading them means they are improving them. They don't have to upgrade them how you want. You don't like it well I don't know what to tell you. Don't forget we haven't even reached Lv.99 yet. By time we get to 99 who knows what kind of upgrades we will see on the weapons. Patience is key in everything.

[Gaspee]

Some people just don't get it, it doesn't matter if it took you 2-4yrs to finish a Mythic or Relic. Good for you, feel accomplished. Yes, I'm still working on my Relic that I have slowly been working on for 6yrs. Do I care that it's taking me so long to finish a weapon that won't be uber and the best forever? Nope. What matters it that I am accomplishing that and that is my goal. Just because it takes you that long doesn't mean that it should take everyone that long to get a top of the line weapon.

People saying that means that if it took me say 4yrs to get a certain AF2 piece that it should be powered up more and be the best? No, just because it takes so long to get something doesn't mean it should be the best forever.

Be glad that SE is putting in trials for all the Relics and Mythics. They could of simply left them Lv.75. The fact that are slowly upgrading them means they are improving them. They don't have to upgrade them how you want. You don't like it well I don't know what to tell you. Don't forget we haven't even reached Lv.99 yet. By time we get to 99 who knows what kind of upgrades we will see on the weapons. Patience is key in everything.

Hi Dew! Well said.

[Rambus]

Some people just don't get it, it doesn't matter if it took you 2-4yrs to finish a Mythic or Relic. Good for you, feel accomplished. Yes, I'm still working on my Relic that I have slowly been working on for 6yrs. Do I care that it's taking me so long to finish a weapon that won't be uber and the best forever? Nope. What matters it that I am accomplishing that and that is my goal. Just because it takes you that long doesn't mean that it should take everyone that long to get a top of the line weapon.

People saying that means that if it took me say 4yrs to get a certain AF2 piece that it should be powered up more and be the best? No, just because it takes so long to get something doesn't mean it should be the best forever.

Be glad that SE is putting in trials for all the Relics and Mythics. They could of simply left them Lv.75. The fact that are slowly upgrading them means they are improving them. They don't have to upgrade them how you want. You don't like it well I don't know what to tell you. Don't forget we haven't even reached Lv.99 yet. By time we get to 99 who knows what kind of upgrades we will see on the weapons. Patience is key in everything.

I would rather have them not do trails if they where going to be useless, could of saved 120 mil

[Byrth]

Rudra's Storm > Evisceration> darkness is more damage then spaming DE by your numbers.

and DNC was not ment to be a pure DD ( even though it can be amzaing on this focus) it can heal too.

But I am not sure how you can consider that number on a crit ws that has DEX mod too seems strange.

the thing is if you make that ODD trigger on offhand on DW it can for THF and that be way to much damage.

the ODD on double attack is OP though in the aspect of mythics and relics.

Unless you're getting double Marches and the party already has a Dancer, DNC will outdamage Thief. Thief attacks a fraction more often per round (~2% but depends on buffs and where you are), but DNC can cap Delay reduction with only one March and Haste while Thief needs to sub ninja, get 2 Marches, Haste, and get Haste Samba from a Dancer. Again, by accident or design, Dancer is a better DD than Thief. The real reason to bring Thief over Dancer is TH.

Rudra's Storm -> Evisceration -> Darkness would do more damage, but you spend time using JAs and monsters don't have unlimited HP. Minimum JA usage is Step -> Step -> Rudra's -> Reverse Flourish -> Evisceration. Assuming absolutely optimal efficiency, this is 3 extra seconds of delay, and realistically it'll be closer to 5 seconds most of the time (Step won't line up perfectly with Rudra's, using 3 JAs in a row won't be entirely efficient). Factor in that TPing to 100TP does damage (as opposed to steps) and you might as well have not used Steps and just spammed Dancing Edge instead. Until SE reduces JA delay or dramatically increases monster defense, Steps will only really be worth using on NMs.

Rudra's (1301) + Evisceration (1523) + Skillchain (1523*1.3) = 4804 damage, near one-shotting most monsters. Dancer going off and soloing monsters obviously removes their primary benefit in group situations (Haste Samba).
Rudra's (1301) + Evisceration (1523) = 2824 damage if someone interrupts you, or somewhere between this and the other if your skillchain is resisted
Dancing Edge (1709)*2 = 3418, which can be spread out over monsters, can't be interrupted, and can't be resisted.

In the first case, you need ~105 TP to execute it. In the second case, you need ~170 TP to execute it (but swing 5 seconds more and do that much more TP phase damage). At high Haste and in party situations, the second option is preferable for multiple reasons. If your group gets large enough (realistically this depends on the other DDs), using Box Step starts being worth it because personal damage is trumped by alliance damage.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Some people just don't get it, it doesn't matter if it took you 2-4yrs to finish a Mythic or Relic. Good for you, feel accomplished. Yes, I'm still working on my Relic that I have slowly been working on for 6yrs. Do I care that it's taking me so long to finish a weapon that won't be uber and the best forever? Nope. What matters it that I am accomplishing that and that is my goal. Just because it takes you that long doesn't mean that it should take everyone that long to get a top of the line weapon.

People saying that means that if it took me say 4yrs to get a certain AF2 piece that it should be powered up more and be the best? No, just because it takes so long to get something doesn't mean it should be the best forever.

Be glad that SE is putting in trials for all the Relics and Mythics. They could of simply left them Lv.75. The fact that are slowly upgrading them means they are improving them. They don't have to upgrade them how you want. You don't like it well I don't know what to tell you. Don't forget we haven't even reached Lv.99 yet. By time we get to 99 who knows what kind of upgrades we will see on the weapons. Patience is key in everything.

I would rather have them not do trails if they where going to be useless, could of saved 120 mil

A valient effort Dew but his ears are def to opinions in conflict of his own. He's lost his old trophy to new toys and is scrambling to keep up to the sport car with his station wagon.

[Rambus]

Unless you're getting double Marches and the party already has a Dancer, DNC will outdamage Thief. Thief attacks a fraction more often per round (~2% but depends on buffs and where you are), but DNC can cap Delay reduction with only one March and Haste while Thief needs to sub ninja, get 2 Marches, Haste, and get Haste Samba from a Dancer. Again, by accident or design, Dancer is a better DD than Thief. The real reason to bring Thief over Dancer is TH.

Rudra's Storm -> Evisceration -> Darkness would do more damage, but you spend time using JAs and monsters don't have unlimited HP. Minimum JA usage is Step -> Step -> Rudra's -> Reverse Flourish -> Evisceration. Assuming absolutely optimal efficiency, this is 3 extra seconds of delay, and realistically it'll be closer to 5 seconds most of the time (Step won't line up perfectly with Rudra's, using 3 JAs in a row won't be entirely efficient). Factor in that TPing to 100TP does damage (as opposed to steps) and you might as well have not used Steps and just spammed Dancing Edge instead. Until SE reduces JA delay or dramatically increases monster defense, Steps will only really be worth using on NMs.

Rudra's (1301) + Evisceration (1523) + Skillchain (1523*1.3) = 4804 damage, near one-shotting most monsters. Dancer going off and soloing monsters obviously removes their primary benefit in group situations (Haste Samba).
Rudra's (1301) + Evisceration (1523) = 2824 damage if someone interrupts you, or somewhere between this and the other if your skillchain is resisted
Dancing Edge (1709)*2 = 3418, which can be spread out over monsters, can't be interrupted, and can't be resisted.

In the first case, you need ~105 TP to execute it. In the second case, you need ~170 TP to execute it (but swing 5 seconds more and do that much more TP phase damage). At high Haste and in party situations, the second option is preferable for multiple reasons. If your group gets large enough (realistically this depends on the other DDs), using Box Step starts being worth it because personal damage is trumped by alliance damage.

SE was blind about how to handle DW trait. the thing is with ODD on thf is the tripple attack rate and if you're talking inside or outside abyssea.

ODD on tripple/ double attack I alreay have an issue with and I guess if some emp ws are going to be crt while others are worthless like the drg one that was pointed out, yeah the WS need more balance.

stuff like this makes me think SE really does thows random things on and hope it works, I am sure there is little testing.

Kinda shocked that evis does not outdo DE over time but maybe thats dnc idonno.